[Archive! - page 456

 
SProgrammer:
I personally have little interest in what happened in the fat year 76...
In the USSR, from 80 onwards, there was BAD living.

Why is another question. IMHO because no one was working. Everyone was just stealing everything.

Well, the positions are converging. We have already agreed that before '80s poverty was not absolute, the more so for the traders who bought stuff for 5 quid and sold it for 120r with the exchange rate of 62 kopecks to the dollar. But they, too, were part of the society and made their sociological contribution to the average life.
But why did they continue to live worse? I am not inclined to blame ordinary people for not working. IMHO the gradual decay of power began, a consequence of which we felt on our own skin by the end of the eighties. Now the same thing is happening to the government, but in a more twisted form, and the people are going to rallies instead of stealing en masse.

In the late seventies the government had a chance to at least reverse course, but the senility and gridlock of the leaders of those days slashed the chance. I leave the analogy to the current situation to those who wish to draw it :))
 
I wonder if there is any connection between the events in Kazakhstan and the tandem's downgrade. They will do.
 

There was no poverty in the USSR. We lived a bit poor, it's true. Yes, there was a disgraceful shortage due to price fixing, with its endless queues. But there was no poverty. But now the people are really impoverished. There is no shortage now, everything looks nice. But this is the outer gloss. But inside it is rotten. People are really poor.

I do not know exactly, I have not studied this question, but if we assume that the GDP of the USSR is equal to the current GDP of the CIS countries, then why are people in poverty now? It is simple. Because the stratification of society into rich and poor has increased. I.e. 10% of the rich began to live much richer, and 90% of the poor began to live twice as poor (it is approximately, by sensation). That is, the exploitation of labour by capital has increased. The rich are ripping off the poor to the bone.

But you shouldn't condemn the poor and condemn the rich. They are two sides of the same coin. Switch places and everything will remain the same. The formerly poor will also steal from the formerly rich. The problem is not with specific people, it is deeper. By the way, to be more accurate, if they switch places, they will soon switch back again - it's the Law. Because, the rich don't happen to be rich and the poor don't happen to be poor. But that is not the crux of the problem. The point is, why don't the 'rich' want to help the 'poor'?

 
granit77:
Ethanol.
Only an idiot would consider life in the USSR to be abject poverty. We lived poorly, but quite decently for that time.
I used to work as an engineer, used to earn about two-three hundreds, had a flat (8-50/month for utilities), a car, colour TV, loudspeakers, I travelled three times on business trips abroad and a couple of times went to socialist countries or took a cruise, but I never wanted to. Because every year I travelled to Abkhazia by car or plane, toured the coast, caught horse mackerel with fishermen and grilled them here on the beach, ate trout in restaurants with Armenian brandy, drank sturgeon soup, ate incomparable smoked beef in apatskha on Lake Ritsa, sometimes scooped black caviar with a tablespoon from a litre jar.
Once every three or four years I would fly to visit my family on the other side of the country.
While I was working in Moscow Region, I used my union tickets to scour Moscow for theatre and concert events - Kostya Raikin (still in the role of the seventh dwarf), Vysotsky, Shirvindt, Gaft, Filatov, Demidova, Doronina, Efremov, Okudzhava, Voznesensky, Yevtushenko and so on. My wife had to buy a mink hat, jeans and a sheepskin coat from fishmongers.

I call that "living poorly" because the car was no Mercedes :)) Ordinary engineers in the provinces today, of course, live better. In our province, the average salary has grown considerably (up to 13 thousand rubles, 130 rubles in Soviet money).


Vitya, are you kidding? We are talking about the average resident. Everyone was only dreaming about your social level. What car? What foreign country?

Of course, people will come out and it will turn out that everyone was just as happy. I know you're sincere, sincere, but not objective.

 
If everyone uses the word poverty, you should at least define it.
 
granit77:
All the more so for the farriers who bought for 5 quid and sold for 120p at 62 kopecks to the dollar.)
60 kopecks was the official rate, while the market rate was 4 roubles to the dollar. 120 - 4 * 5 = 100p - not a bad rate of return. There are also indirect costs.
 

Compared to now, the USSR was a shabby niche. Don't lie to yourself. Remember.

No car to buy. There was no proper food.

And again - there were 0.001% of people like me.

And 99% lived on food only.

There was no unnecessary abundance. And don't give me the example of pensioners. Yes, pensioners and the elderly do not live rich. But those who work, they live well.

One example of the OK shop speaks for itself. For the fact that the cars are already overcrowded.

Why lie to yourself? I don't get it.

There were crowds in the shops in the USSR, all because of the queues.

For women's boots they had to wait by appointment. Furniture by appointment. Carpets by appointment. Everything by appointment. Either you don't remember anything or you really didn't live in those times.

 
Mischek:
If everyone uses the word poverty, you should at least define it.

Or at least understand the relativity of its use. From the point of view of a Gdr, we had poverty, from the point of view of the Bundes, abject poverty, from the point of view of a Vietnamese, simply paradise.
 
Mischek:

Or at least understand the relativity of its use. From the point of view of a Gdr, we had poverty, from the point of view of the Bundes, abject poverty, from the point of view of a Vietnamese, just paradise.
Well you read my definition. I, an ordinary engineer, not a spanner in the head, without influential relatives and blatant connections, lived poorly (see description above), but I was not a beggar.
Now I am a virtual beggar, i.e. my pension is half as high as it was in the Soviet Union, the housing and utilities bill is five times higher, and the remaining amount is half the cost of living. This is why the abundance of sausages in the shop does not excite me.
 
Mischek:

Or at least understand the relativity of its use. From the point of view of a Gdr, we had poverty, from the point of view of the Bundes, abject poverty, from the point of view of a Vietnamese, simply paradise.

Of course, everything is relative. And from the point of view of the most scruffy celestial, a World of Men billionaire is just a beggar.

But from the point of view of the hungry spirit of the Preet World, any beggar of the Human World is a billionaire.