need some help in gettin aroud this - page 2
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If someone hires you to code something for him, HE is the owner and has a right to the code.
Thanks WHRoeder, that seems fair to me. My own taught as to why some programmers may not want to provide the source code is because they've used allot of template-like coding example: allot of includes and libraries. So maybe it becomes difficult for them to provide the source-code without giving away allot of hard-worked pre-maded codes.
So should a hired-programmer be advised to write the codes from scratch then?
Hm. Not against it :) just expect to get paid more for it. After all it gives the owner some more options that he wouldn't have otherwise (or with just the executable).
its tough one... Coder is no one without my Idea, My Idea is nothing without a Coder, what a loop...
designer/inventor had an idea, lets say invented new trend in fashion.... new original dress... sent his sketch to china where poor kids transferred his worth "nothing" piece of paper in worthy real dress... does the li ching put his name on it??? does the li ching has a right to alteration... all he was hired for was to use a tools, thread, scissors etc...
My very own opinion is: ITS all ABOUT UNIQUENESS: i poses an idea... u poses a tool like thousand others... there is nothing unique in your job.... don't take me wrong i do appreciate ur hard work... but on earth what's make u think u r unique with your coding...
of course one can be better then other, one can code neater then other,,, but u no what as long as logic is correct and product does what it was design for... i couldn't care less. just do ur bloody job, get ur money and shut up.
... sent his sketch to china where poor kids transferred his worth "nothing" piece of paper in worthy real dress...
This is one of the reasons we post "No-Slaves Here". You've just taken this constructive topic in another direction. These are just my opinions:
The so-called traders think they're better than the programmers. The reality is traders don't know what they want nor what they're innovating. If you can think of an idea but cannot code it, what good are you in this loop. When you pass it along to a coder, he'll have both the ability to code it and the original idea in his head now. Nothing unique about ideas. I can think of a Futuristic Space-Craft, if I lack the possibility to create it, the idea is pointless.
There are more Forex-Traders in the world than Forex-Programmers. But less competent Traders than Programmers. Reasons should be obvious. If you pay for something which does what it's suppose to but does-not make money, don't have buyers remorse and make life hard for the programmer, just take the bloody loss and shut up.
but on earth what's make u think u r unique with your coding...
of course one can be better then other, one can code neater then other,,, but u no what as long as logic is correct and product does what it was design for... i couldn't care less. just do ur bloody job, get ur money and shut up.
Wtf. I'm as entitled to my opinion as you're to yours. Grow up.
Also I disagree with WHR and Ubzen. If someone hired me to code something for him, then imo, it gives him the right to use the executable. The executable contains his idea and he can use this new tool that he ordered.
It's the same as riding a bike. You go to shop, because you want to ride a bike, you buy it, you use it, you can even resell it. You cannot claim patent ownership, you can not harass other people to not use the same model, you do not get bike blueprints (as in comlete chemistry components, etc etc).
To give the customer source code is like allowing him to modify the bike in my little analogy. As you have specialised service shops for each bike's brand, (well you're not obligated to use them, but then warranty is void) you have to go there to modify your bike. But modifications and parts cost money.
So to give him the source, I have no problem, but it's an option, the customer has to pay for in addition to finieshed product.
upsss. i no it could sound bit rude.... but wat it ment to be is just silly remark.... I do apologize, "You cannot claim patent ownership, you can not harass other people to not use the same model, you do not get bike blueprints (as in comlete chemistry components, etc etc)...... of course you can not Thats the point : U DID not invented it. "To give the customer source code is like allowing him to modify the bike in my little analogy." a do respect ur way of thinking but it like a factory who physically made a bicycle claimed that yea of course well release you product mr inventor but ummmm u no u can not do any further modification to it!!!! e WAT???? LOL..... sorry guys maybe am a bit aggressive about it, but iam just goin through such situation and its drive me mad.... any way in 2 weeks final hearing... i don't really believe in justice however ive got a filling this is an obvious one.
once again it was just silly remark... plz take my apology.
No harm :)
I disagree though with your claim that the source is not my (coder's / programmer's) idea.
I agree that the idea of what you wanted the program to do is yours and I do not dispute that (although in my opnion, whenever anyone gets a bright idea, about 1337 other people around the globe already had the same idea and 5% of those tried to realize it).
To explain: the source code doesn't only contain the trading idea that the customer wanted encoded, it also includes all the small ideas in how the trades actually get done, created, how the program recovers from any and all failures, how it checks other unforeseen conditions in market, how it checks account, connection, server, gets its files in order (if any), checks existing orders, manages active orders in real time etc etc..
Those are all ideas that the customer ordered, and did not know about it. And the customer as such has absolutely no claim towards that knowledge unless with special arrangement with the coder.
This is one of the reasons we post "No-Slaves Here"......
right... i no... i did ask for a little help in order to speed up an understanding of what goes where and no respond... should i really start witch offering a $$$$$.... its just sad... i did sign up myself long ago to some electric and electronic forum for professionals... and u know what even the most silly question will get respond there... no stupid remarks, cos all of us at some point was there... this forum seems to be very professional and it might to be a case that when u ppl see such "fledgeling" / is that word right????/ than u just feel literally sick....
but what i believe in is that u should learn from the best to become such. year ago i was not able to write a single word in English, but luck of good resources in my home language made me to learn... i believe determination is the key.
any way ive got the book :Expert Advisor programming creating automated trading systems in mql for metatrader 4 by mr young . and technically speaking book itself is good... i learnt the way of "thinking" understand the logic, but am afraid the what u wont learn from the book is how to make them blocks of code working... obviously am not talking about basics... another words: function blocks not a problem /to some extend/ /am on basic lvl/ but where to put them bricks... that's the question....
ok lets narrow it a bit... is it really all about money??? if yes plz be straigt forward with it... i would be more than happy having tutor i could ask if in doubt.
thanks.
All? no. Work? yes.
If it were all about money, we wouldn't be here helping people to learn mql4. (and take it from me, that the amount of help that gets thrown here daily, is enormous. Count daily posts by WHRoeder, Ubzen, Zzuegg, EAdeveloper, fx1 (or something similar, sry :P), 7bit,...). It's not paid :)
No harm :)
I disagree though with your claim that the source is not my (coder's / programmer's) idea.
I agree that the idea of what you wanted the program to do is yours and I do not dispute that (although in my opnion, whenever anyone gets a bright idea, about 1337 other people around the globe already had the same idea and 5% of those tried to realize it).
To explain: the source code doesn't only contain the trading idea that the customer wanted encoded, it also includes all the small ideas in how the trades actually get done, created, how the program recovers from any and all failures, how it checks other unforeseen conditions in market, how it checks account, connection, server, gets its files in order (if any), checks existing orders, manages active orders in real time etc etc..
Those are all ideas that the customer ordered, and did not know about it. And the customer as such has absolutely no claim towards that knowledge unless with special arrangement with the coder.
its just me being ignorant.... of course its easy to say all cars same cos r able to drive... the thing change however when u open the bonnet.... i thing there is golden solution... cos i think we can find bit of true in both stories... since there is a 10s of 10s ways in coding to achieve same result some coders leave behind other creating really bug proof, really clever micro solutions within a code... .... the solution from such bits of code being reviled would be not to utilizing them... just keep the code to the minimum... within boundary of "code of practise"
but again its like ask a great painter to paint a crap one:) i would count it as an assault.:)
All? no. Work? yes.
If it were all about money, we wouldn't be here helping people to learn mql4. (and take it from me, that the amount of help that gets thrown here daily, is enormous. Count daily posts by WHRoeder, Ubzen, Zzuegg, EAdeveloper, fx1 (or something similar, sry :P), 7bit,...). It's not paid :)
tell me about it... me, myself spend literally at least few hours a day here since ive signed up last week ...and so far am just like a "leech" .... presumably only because all I know is how much i don't no.