Big projects. - page 4

 
Реter Konow:

With the old approach, everyone has been standing still for a long time. Is there really a full-fledged AI? The level of intelligence of an ant has certainly been achieved, but even a dog is as far away as the moon.

You have to understand that the intellect without the psyche will never work properly. And the psyche is a whole world hidden from our understanding. There is the subconsciousness, the Ego, processes about which we know nothing. It is the psyche that is the basis of human intelligence, not the rigid program logic of a computer. I think I "fumbled" for the key of understanding the structure and functioning of psyche many years ago, but I have not dealt with this problematic for a long time, having passed to the world of programming. Perhaps there will be an occasion to revisit neglected research...

Why stand still? Actually, AI is developing and adopting at a rapid pace. There are already unmanned cars in the US, for example, and so on. And not so long ago, it all seemed fantastic. Even though dogs have not yet reached the level of intelligence, but it's only a matter of time. And in a couple of decades they will displace humans from this sphere, as well as from many other spheres. As for Elon Musk, he recently voiced fears that AI is the main threat to humanity in the near future. And you're talking about the psyche... It's all just our interpretation of our inner feelings. Let's talk about the soul.) If there is one, how to program it )

 
Alexey Navoykov:

Why stand still? Actually, AI is developing and being introduced at a rapid pace. There are already unmanned cars in the US, for example, and so on. Not so long ago, it all seemed like science fiction. Even though dogs have not yet reached the level of intelligence, but it's only a matter of time. And in a couple of decades they will displace humans from this sphere, as well as from many other spheres. As for Elon Musk, he recently voiced fears that AI is the main threat to humanity in the near future. And you're talking about the psyche... It's all just our interpretation of our inner feelings. Let's talk about the soul.) If there is one, how to program it )

We have to define what we mean by intelligence.

If we are talking about complex programs that perform routine work and cope with a set of clearly defined tasks, then undoubtedly, great progress has been made in this direction. Land navigation, pattern recognition, simulation of dialogues with the user, these are the successes of mankind at the moment. However, this is a far cry from Intelligence. There are no cognitive processes in such activities and it is an obvious imitation. Modern AI has not matured to the Alan Turing test.

Intelligence, is more than a programme, it is Consciousness "revolving" around its own self, fixated on its own interests. Intelligence is most vividly characterised by the capacity for understanding, learning, reasoning and logic, but we cannot fully reproduce these qualities without creating a "Self". And Self, in turn, is impossible without Self-awareness. So, in order to build an Artificial Intelligence, one must first build its Consciousness, which in turn is a derivative of the Psyche.

Now about the Psyche.

The Psyche, is the foundation of Consciousness. Formation of the Psyche at a certain stage of evolution, allowed creatures to free themselves from a clear program and evolve towards Intelligence. (A dog, for example, undoubtedly has the rudiments of a psyche). The higher the evolutionary stage a creature stands on, the better developed its psyche is. At the pinnacle of mental development is Man. It is he who has a full-fledged Mind. His Psyche allows him to behave emotionally, unpredictably and irrationally, obeying a hidden motivation. It conditions the existence of character and individuality. The psyche makes it possible to break the dependence on the "source code" and gain freedom of behaviour. Without psyche, man will turn into an underdeveloped animal, under the dictate of primitive needs. Biological mechanism.

If we remove the need for human qualities from the concept of AI, our surrogate will be so limited that it will only be able to fulfil clearly defined tasks. In the absence of a self, such an AI will always be dependent on a number of programming strings. To equal it to a human, an AI without a self would need to write an infinite number of algorithms. Figuratively, the more algorithms we write, the more tasks AI will be able to perform. But it will never be able to fully imitate a human anyway. The number of errors in its behavior will be huge - because it will not be aware of itself inside the situation. This is a deadlock - such AI will never gain "Self", so its application will always be limited to the replacement of the man in a narrow circle of low-level spheres of activity.

The structure and processes of the psyche are currently unknown to science. There are some theories and conjectures, but no coherent idea. The psyche is hidden in the unconscious and is extremely difficult to understand. However, there is undoubtedly a key to understanding it and it is this key that leads to the creation of true AI.

These are my views on the subject.


P.S. The psyche is primary to the Consciousness and is rooted in the evolution of the animal world. Therefore, there is so much animal essence in man, even though his Mind mercilessly fights it. Mind, in this understanding, is a derivative of Consciousness. The concentrate of its highest manifestations. If to separate Intellect, as an ability to rigid logic and situation analysis, from Consciousness, Reason, and Psyche, we will get an "organ" torn from the "organism" without the ability to develop and reconstruct its initial integrity.

 
Реter Konow:


... Consciousness, which in turn is a derivative of the Psyche.

... The Psyche is the foundation of Consciousness.



Completely empty statements.

It can be quite the other way round. And the psyche of individuals can turn out to be a kind of pimples on the body of Consciousness. And in neglected cases these pimples may turn into painful boils.

 
Олег avtomat:

Completely empty statements.

It may be quite the opposite.

Elementary logic:

The dog has the rudiments of the psyche and this can be observed in its behaviour. It can have different moods. But a dog does not have self-consciousness - it does not recognise itself in the mirror.

An infant has a very underdeveloped Consciousness, but the psyche is quite developed and he experiences situations of his life emotionally.

Hence - the Psyche is primary in relation to the Consciousness.

That is why Consciousness is a derivative of the Psyche, formed in the process of evolution.

 
Реter Konow:

Elementary logic:

A dog has the beginnings of a psyche and this can be observed in its behaviour. It can have different moods. But a dog has no self-awareness - it does not recognise itself in the mirror.

An infant has very poorly developed Consciousness, but its psyche is quite developed and it experiences situations of its life emotionally.

Hence - the psyche is primary to the Consciousness.

Therefore Consciousness, is a derivative of the Psyche, formed in the process of evolution.


From such elementary logic, such fundamental conclusions do not follow at all.


Another view :

Consciousness can be seen as an ocean on the surface of which there is a psycho-wave that does not at all affect its deeper underlying mass.

 

And what does your elementary logic say about ants, termites, bees and other collective insects, undoubtedly formed in the process of evolution, and are the product of evolution? Do they have a psyche? Do they have a consciousness? Do they perform deliberate actions? What drives their actions - psyche or consciousness?

 
Олег avtomat:

And what does your elementary logic say about ants, termites, bees and other collective insects, undoubtedly formed in the process of evolution, and are the product of evolution? Do they have a psyche? Do they have a consciousness? Do they perform deliberate actions? What drives their actions - psyche or consciousness?

Of course, insects and other low evolved organisms have no even a rudiment of mind. And they have no consciousness, of course. Rather, a biological programme with a rigid code of behaviour. Similar to the ones we now write on the computer. Simple algorithms of maintaining internal and external homeostasis to ensure the most efficient life functioning in the environment. Evolutionarily, these organisms are much older than mammals, from which, in my opinion, the process of psychic formation is derived.

These creatures are on the lower rungs of the evolutionary ladder, and their structure is too primitive to carry out mental functions.

Imho.

 
Олег avtomat:

From such elementary logic, such fundamental conclusions do not follow at all.


Another view :

Consciousness can be seen as an ocean, on the surface of which there is a psycho-excitement that does not at all affect its deeper underlying mass.

Of course, I draw conclusions from my theory of origin of psyche, consciousness and intellect. This is my subjective opinion and I do not claim to be an absolute truth.

One, it is possible to assert with a confidence: everything was preceded by a process .

In the process, something is always primary and something is secondary. In this case, I consider the Consciousness as a product of psychic and cognitive activity, and consequently, I put the Psyche ahead. Also, it is quite obvious that Consciousness is indeed smaller than Unconsciousness. Consequently, it is the Psyche that is the "Ocean" and Consciousness that is an island on it. This version seems more logical to me.

 
Реter Konow:

... This is my subjective opinion and I do not claim to be the final truth.

...


this is the right thing to do.

 

Созна́ние — состояние психической жизни человека, выражающееся в субъективном переживании событий внешнего мира и жизни самого индивида, а также в отчете об этих событиях

The psyche - The totality of mental processes and phenomena (sensations, perceptions, emotions, memory, etc.); a specific aspect of animal and human life in its interaction with the environment