[Archive! - page 668

 
khorosh:
Beria's organisational achievements were based on the fear of the people, who faced accusations of sabotage and sabotage and punishment up to and including firing squad. Times are different now.

I agree, but it is a historical fact that if it were not for him and his ability to organise, there would probably be no Russia now, and probably no other countries either.

Now if he was, he would have found another way to influence, it does not depend on how the work is organised the main goal is the result. In those days, the lever was intimidation, today you can use another alternative, the main thing is the talent of the person, and how he does it is a matter of tenths.

 
Martingeil:

I agree, but it is a historical fact that if it were not for him and his ability to organise, there would be no possibility now for Russia and other countries as well, most likely.

Now, if he had been there, he would have found another way to influence, it does not depend on how the work is organized and the main goal is the result. In those days, the lever was intimidation, today you can use another alternative, the main thing is a person's talent and how he does it is a different matter.

I think that nowadays his activity would hardly be as effective as in the past. There are not many levers to influence people: 1. Intimidation 2. Material stimulation 3. Ideological inspiration. And nowadays they are in principle used, but intimidation is not as extreme as it used to be. At most it is fear of losing a lucrative job, but it is a far cry from the fear that dominated human consciousness in earlier times - fear of losing one's life.
 
khorosh:
I think that nowadays his activities are unlikely to be as effective as in the past. There are not many levers to influence people: 1. Intimidation 2. Material stimulation 3. Ideological inspiration. And in our time in principle they are used, just deterrence is not taken to such extreme measures as before. At most it is fear of losing one's job, but this is a far cry from the fear that dominated human consciousness in earlier times - fear of losing one's life.

The main thing is the idea and how it will be presented, it takes talent, there are people who can wake up any dormant anthill and inspire it so that everyone will follow. And they have always been the same and the people are the same, I do not see any difference. If a man is able to do it and if he has a talent for it he will succeed.

During the reign of Catherine II, there was a disease in some city, so everybody died there, the reason was the disease, when people were afraid they lost the ability to resist the disease, I do not remember who went there from the court and was not afraid to remove the bodies from the streets and made them ring the bells, strangely enough he did not get the disease and after that people just stopped being afraid, it is a historical fact.

 
Martingeil:


Under Catherine the Great, there was some disease in some city so everybody died there and the reason was the disease, when people were afraid people lost ability to resist this disease, I do not remember which courtier went there and was not afraid to remove bodies from the streets and made them beat bells, strangely enough he was not infected and after that disease disappeared, people just stopped being afraid, it is a historical fact.

Yes, Count Grigory Grigorievich Orlov (see biography) during the plague that broke out in Moscow in 1770, claiming 900 human lives a day. The population of Moscow was in the order of 200,000.

Recall that the capital at that time was St Petersburg.

 
Mathemat:

It seemed to me that Martingeil was talking about a different kind of non-alternative - that there is no real replacement for Pu as President of Russia.

But that is not true. Prokhorov may not be an important politician, but he is a very good businessman, i.e. an organiser. It is not the first time he has organised and motivated highly qualified people around him.

Yes, but running a country and running a corporation are very different things. We are already going towards the point where, for example, education has to be profitable. But it physically cannot and should not be.
 
yosuf:
On the other hand, for a creative person it should make no difference who is in power, as long as there is peace in the country and basic conditions are created for the development of market relations, and the rest will work out automatically. Reliance on power is the lot of helpless people who are not sure of their abilities. The Russians have made the best possible choice out of the real options that exist. The main thing for traders is that forex is allowed in Russia, not like it is in China. A good strategy in their hands, make money and beneficiate the power that gives them that opportunity and that's it.


This is a misconception that "everything will happen automatically". Only the bad and perverse can happen automatically, the good and constructive must be specially nurtured and encouraged.

 
sand:
Yes, but running a country and a corporation are very different things. We are getting to the point where, for example, education has to be profitable. But it physically cannot and should not be.


Well Putin also once had his first term. And there was no experience of presidency then. There was some flawed experience of working in the government of St. Petersburg and a little experience of premiership...

It seems to me that at the moment it is not experience that is more important for the Russian president, but personal qualities: honesty and decisiveness. What about etiquette, diplomacy and steering, the aides-advisers will tell you. They do not give a shit about them.

 
Figar0:


It seems to me that at the moment it is not experience that is more important for the Russian president, but personal qualities: honesty and decisiveness. What about etiquette, diplomacy and steering, the aides-advisers will tell you. They don't give a shit about them.


Words of gold.
 
Figar0:


Well Putin also had his first term in office. And there was no experience of presidency then. There was some flawed experience of working in the government in St. Petersburg and some experience of being prime minister...

It seems to me that at the moment it is not experience that is more important for the Russian president, but personal qualities: honesty and decisiveness. What about etiquette, diplomacy and steering, the aides-advisers will tell you. They are the shit out of them.

I really liked Prokhorov's sister's answer to Poo's representative Mikhalkov at the presidential TV debate.

Mikhalkov: Putin is President from God.

Prokhorov's sister: If Yeltsin is God, then I have to agree with you.

!!!

 
Figar0:


Putin had his first term in office too. And he did not have any presidential experience then. There was some flawed experience of working in the government of St. Petersburg and some experience of being prime minister...

It seems to me that at the moment it is not experience that is more important for the Russian president, but personal qualities: honesty and decisiveness. What about etiquette, diplomacy and steering, the aides-advisers will tell you. They are the hell out of them.


I agree. And the phrase - "the President is the guarantor of the constitution" - should not be an empty phrase. And if he really was the guarantor, things would have developed differently.