Discussing conflicts between programmers and customers. A discussion of ambiguous situations between the programmer and the client, and a rating of the most conflicted programmer performers. - page 10

 
Bormotun:


What's the problem, put your terms of reference here "as is"
 
Bormotun:
It's much more subtle, let someone read it and ask them to explain it to you.
So why play "spoiled telephone". I hope you're not ten years old. Suit yourself.
 
abolk:

Any communication during the discussion of the ToR is acceptable. There are several stages in the development of the ToR: 1. Reflection. 2. Writing. 3. Checking, reflecting, clarifying. 4. Delivering the finished result.

The TOR is for the client, with some support from the developer, of course. But pro-norm the developer's time costs: 1. Sorting out the ToR. 2. Coding. 3. Making amendments.

The developer is willing to "parse the ToR", but not to think through the ToR together with the customer.

With a voice communication you involve the developer in the "thinking and writing TOR" phase. To parse TOR for written, to parse TOR for voice communication, to parse TOR for video - this is completely different time consumption.

Basically, if you want to negotiate TK only by voice, then finance by the hour. There's no problem.

The TOR together with the text takes no more than 15 minutes, but the time it takes to clarify misunderstandings during the work can take 1.5 months.
 
Dima_S:
Why play "spoilt phone"? I hope you're not ten years old. Well, suit yourself.
I just wanted to say that any limitation creates misunderstanding, just as you can't show colour on your fingers, just as you can't convey many nuances in one letter, or at least it will take a disproportionately longer time than the cost of the work.
 
Bormotun:
Negotiating the ToR, along with the text, takes no more than 15 minutes, but the time it takes to clarify misunderstandings during the work can take 1.5 months.

Well, what kind of TOR is it if there are situations that are so unclear. It is better to call it an excuse to say hello to the performer and look at his interest.

and 1.5 months - is it working on the TK or editing code to detect nuances in the TK?

 
Bormotun: Talking to TK, along with the text, takes no more than 15 minutes, but the time it takes to clarify misunderstandings during the work can take 1.5 months.

If you are an adult, you should understand that in any case involving money, the main conditions (ToR) must be clearly formalized. This is so that each party has something to refer to as a foundation - not just in arbitration, but also during work.

The best formalisation of the 'contract' between customer and coder is a fixed text. If the customer is unable to formalise their thoughts (TOR) as text, then they/he will have a problem.

Both video and voice communication can too easily be turned anywhere. I understand that sometimes talking is quicker and even more understandable. But this applies to details (nuances), but not to the main part of the ToR.

 
sergeev:

Well, what kind of TOR is it if there are situations that are so unclear. Better to call it an excuse to say hello to the contractor and look at his interest.

and 1.5 months - is this work on the TOR or code editing to detect nuances in this TOR ?

No it's not, do not twist, although to twist and interpret just the opportunity to write, everything is clear and the TOR is clear, that's why it takes 15 minutes to agree, but is it as clear to the performer as it is clear to the customer?

And 1.5 months was not clear at all on what, some kind of clinic.

 
Mathemat:

If you are an adult, you must understand that in any case involving payment with money, the main conditions (TOR) must be clearly formalized. This is so that each party has something to refer to as a foundation - not just in arbitration, but also during work.

The best formalisation of the 'contract' between customer and coder is a fixed text. If the customer is unable to formalise their thoughts (TOR) as text, then they/he will have a problem.

Both video and voice communication can too easily be turned anywhere. I understand that sometimes talking is quicker and even more understandable. But this applies to the details (nuances) but not to the main part of the ToR.

As for adult or not, everything in the world is relative.

You probably don't understand, it's not a question of voice fixing the flaws in the ToR that aren't properly formalised. It's about how the most perfect text can be twisted so badly that its parent won't even recognize it. If everything were so unambiguous with the texts, there would be no arbitration courts, for example, and why should there be, because the parties have written contracts, everything is written there. However, for some reason, our courts are full of disputes between economic entities. It means that everything is not so simple with the writing.

 
Legal entities go to arbitration not because their contracts are poorly drafted, but because one of the parties is in breach of contract and the situation cannot be resolved through pre-trial proceedings.
 
Contender:
Legal persons go to arbitration courts not because the contracts are poorly drafted, but because any of the parties violates the terms of the contract and to resolve the situation in pre-trial proceedings does not work.
Ah, well, you probably have more experience in court practice, this is a case where you described the need for coercion for one of the parties, but it happens in fact and so that differently interpret some points of the contract, for example in the division of property.