AI 2023. Meet ChatGPT. - page 124

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Ilya Filatov #:

I'm not saying that information is matter. But the fact that matter is only information is very similar.

You've got to be kidding me

 
Ivan Butko #:

You've got to be kidding me.

(it would be nice to read in your dispute who means what by the words "matter" and "information" ... . Because it is not very clear where matter comes from... and how to understand the word "information" in the statements of each of you. It's interesting...)

 
onceagain #:

(it would be better to read in your dispute who means what by the words "matter" and "information" .... Because it is not very clear where matter comes from and how to understand the word "information" in the statements of each of you. It's interesting, isn't it?)

It's all in the public domain!

1. Matter is what is in space and has physical properties.

Information is any information about something: a subject, object, phenomenon.

Information and information carrier are two different concepts.

Matter is in space and has space coordinates. Information is not in space, the medium is in space. No matter how you twist a book in your hands, a book is just inked paper. The inked paper is matter, and everything in it is information. The paper can be compressed, the font can be reduced, but the information will not be reduced. You can burn the paper, but the information will not disappear. It can be restored, or you can come to it in the process of studying. If it is scientific information, they will come to it. If it is unscientific information, it will be invented someday, just as the same stories are invented now.

Cheburashka cannot be touched. Communism can't be drunk. Sarcasm can't be measured with a ruler. The Loch Ness monster doesn't oscillate at a certain frequency. These are all immaterial objects, they have no physical properties: spatial extent (volume, length, dimensions), material properties (density, temperature), ethereal properties (oscillation frequency, amplitude). This is certain information that can be transmitted by means of matter: by a wave over wi-fai, by drawing on the wall in the entrance, by building the word "KIRPICH" out of bricks. But the brick will not become brickier from this.

2. According to the laws of logic, to have more than one meaning is to have no meaning. Besides, it is necessary to define each term. Since these terms are already defined, there is no need to invent anything.

Therefore, information exists independently of matter and space.
 
Ivan Butko #:

...

Therefore, information exists independently of matter and of space.
1. Everything is quite logical except the last conclusion. If information exists independently of matter, why does it need a carrier?

2. Any information, one way or another, is related to the material world and describes its objects.

We all understand that world processes produce data, but because there is too much of it, the brain is forced to generalise. Evolutionarily, it has learnt to do this well. Therefore, information is a product of "compression" of data from the world around us, and our brain is its main "carrier". Without the brain, no information exists and therefore plays no role in the physical world.
 
There is information that does not describe the real world but is fiction, but this does not change the fact that the only carrier, generator and converter of any information is the brain.
 
In general, information is a product of the brain (intellect, mind, intelligence, reason, consciousness, thinking...etc.) designed to represent (model, generalise, process, calculate, predict...etc.) the processes of the surrounding world, for the best adaptation to conditions, survival and development.
 
Реter Konow #:
1. Everything is quite logical, except for the last conclusion. If information exists independently of matter, why does it need a carrier?

2. Any information, one way or another, is related to the material world and describes its objects.

1. It doesn't need a medium. We need a medium. Subjects dealing solely and only with matter, consisting of matter and interacting with matter and nothing else. We have to read information from somewhere and process it somewhere. Namely, in material objects. We do not interact with anything else in principle.

2. Connected, but not interacting.

 
Реter Konow #:
There is information that does not describe the real world and is fiction, but that does not change the fact that the only carrier, generator and transformer of any information is the brain.

Honour Board. Instructions on the air freshener in the toilet. Komsomolskaya Pravda.

It's all information carriers. The generator can be a calculator, which generates the answer. The converter is the decoder.

Your statement is incorrect.

 
Реter Konow #:
In general, information is a product of the brain (intellect, mind, intelligence, reason, consciousness, thinking...etc.) designed to represent (model, generalise, process, calculate, predict...etc.) the processes of the surrounding world, for the best adaptation to conditions, survival and development.

And not just the brain.

You have a scrappy thought. Or too specialised. Ilya's original charge was about something else.

 
It's interesting. In the beginning there was nothing, neither space nor time. When the universe expanded, space and time appeared, but only within the boundaries of expansion. What is there at the edge? If you stretch out your hand, it disappears and you get back half your hand? Or you bump into a wall? - but there's nothing there.

in my articles I have a simulator of motion of objects, laws of motion can be set. the interesting thing is that with a sufficiently large number of objects randomly created the same formations, groups of objects appear. from a random broth of particles arises the same thing, the same thing over and over again. either the laws of the universe are arranged differently and always chaos turns into order, or man does not know anything. it seems that he does not know anything after all.
Man has already turned matter into energy, and recently energy has been able to turn into matter. matter and energy are one and the same thing, and information is the very fact that it is possible.
No information, no nothing.
no matter, no nothing.
No energy, no nothing.

from any one of the three, anything can arise.
I'm thinking out loud, I didn't answer anyone and I don't have to answer anyone either.

the fact of the Big Bang may be fiction, all coincidences of names are coincidental, no animals were harmed in the course of cruel thought experiments.

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