We can no longer control the placement of objects on the graph "vertically" - page 3

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ForexTools >>:
....Единственное что меня удивляет - их болезненная реакция на любые попытки по(до)казать им что чтото они сделали не совсем так как нам хочется :)


I absolutely agree with you. It often feels like we are fighting windmills and our opinions (those of the traders) are the last to be taken into account, if at all.

Here is my request https://www.mql5.com/ru/forum/1031/6388#comment_6388

I think it is necessary to unite our efforts somehow, to show developers that this is IMPORTANT for us.

Z.U. As an option, forum members with a certain rating can create polls.

 
Prival >>:

Абсолютно с Вами согласен. Часто возникает ощущение, что боремся с ветряными мельницами и наше мнение (мнение трейдеров) учитывается в последнюю очередь, если вообще учитывается.

(Heavy sigh) The opinion of programmers is the last to be taken into account, the opinion of traders is not considered at all...
 

Don't be so pessimistic. We are only looking at it from our side, but we know nothing about their real situation. They may (and almost certainly do) not have enough people to quickly and accurately fix everything that probably has been found by at least a thousand forum users who find errors and suggest something. Judging by the situation in MQL5, I can assume that the trading servers have the same problems (they cannot make a banal exit through proxy with a closed 1950 port since last September). And until they close the holes there, you and I with our problems will wait for them...........

And it's a shame they didn't at least make some kind of closed forum at the design stage. Many of today's problems could have been discussed back then and simply prevented, but now... Millions of code lines have already been written, and one is afraid that an innocent edit in one somehow working place will result in an avalanche of other, more serious errors.

A programmer is deep in debugging. His son comes to him:
- Daddy, why does the sun rise in the East and set in the West every day?
- Did you check it?
- I did.
- Did you check?
- It's good.
- Is it working?
- It's working.
- Does it work every day?
- Yes, every day.
- Then for God's sake, son, don't touch anything, don't change anything.

 

1. the object name is its unambiguous identifier. In fours, the object name was used to determine its location in the list of objects. So, in order to change the order in which an object appears in the graph, you have to change the identifier! Wrong!

2. Another effect that occurs with this approach. You create an object on top of another object, and then the name did not work out and this object suddenly appeared at the bottom.

3. another effect. Objects are removed by the backspace key from the end, as the date of creation. That is, objects appear in one order, and are removed in another order.

These are exactly the 3 points we have been complaining about. We haven't changed anything in four for a long time. In five, we wrote it from scratch, so the order of objects is natural, by time of creation. The so-called z-order plays a role only for a limited group of objects (not for the entire list). So you can re-create this group of objects in order you want, without affecting the names.

This was impossible in four - create, recreate, and the order of objects depends on the name - for the programmer may not be a problem, but for those who create objects manually (or semiautomatically, with scripts that do not analyze the entire list of objects) can be a problem, one of the above. That is, we have shown concern for non-programmers, and the programmers are offended. Although programmers can now easily provide any order of objects without touching their names.

 
stringo >>:
То есть, мы проявили заботу о непрограммистах, а программисты обиделись. Хотя программисты теперь без проблем могут обеспечить любой порядок объектов, не трогая их имён.

We weren't offended. We've lost the only option that allowed us to somehow manage the placement of objects on the chart and got absolutely nothing in return. Advice with re-creation is for obvious (I hope) reasons not considered a decent solution. Yes, we can indeed get "any order " now (I gave an example with the event handler), but we can 't get the order we want. And we don't need it to make coding easier for us. All so that we, too, can take care in our EAs of those you have already shown your care for.

That's why I asked you to take care of us and come up with a mechanism. I suggested some options. Is that really an insurmountable problem for you? Baxpace can delete objects in the order they were created and the vertical placement is controlled manually and from within your code. All you need is just two arrays of indices ;)

Moreover, the same traders will surely be glad to see such icons in the terminal toolbar:

I was afraid to even mention the first two, but it's a good excuse ;)

Imagine that I saw some figure on a chart, outlined it with three or five lines and other objects like fibo-levels, and now I want to use this markup to check it on the history and in future trading. For this I need to move the whole group simultaneously.... It's not so easy to implement but it is done without any problems, but your terminal or MQL5 do not have such a feature :(

 
ForexTools писал(а) >>

We were not offended. We lost the one opportunity that allowed us some control over the placement of objects on the chart and got absolutely nothing in return. Advice with re-creation is for obvious (I hope) reasons not considered a decent solution. Yes, we can indeed get "any order " now (I gave an example with the event handler), but we can 't get the order we want




How so? Deprived of the only opportunity? Is it everyone, or is it just you?

I don't understand the reasons. Or rather I understand that you need exactly this solution here and now. But I don't understand why you can't create the order you need. Too lazy to write?

I would like to remind you that MT5 is not a photoshop, it is a client terminal for trading. It is used by very different people, and not only by programmers. Objects are drawn by completely different people, not only scripts and programs. And for a programmer (as opposed to an ordinary person), it is not too much trouble to program anything.

Dare I quote from here

What can I say, our (ruskaphones) only on the forums whined and cried that their favorite locs are deprived. And now, the foreign-speaking part of the MT community took and did. A stark contrast, sadly enough, in the approach to the problem.

 

As far as I understand, this is purely about overlapping objects and the claim is based on that.


Firstly, it is not necessary (wrong) to build overlapping interfaces, and secondly, the re-creation of panels can be done completely - in this case there will be no problems with overlapping objects.

 
Renat >>:

...и на этом основании строится претензия.

Why are you so touchy? it's not a complaint, but an attempt to understand how things are done now: is it a mistake in the code, an algorithm flaw, or an agreed upon position and a final decision? If it's a mistake - I'll wait until it's fixed, if it's a flaw - maybe I can convince them to fix it, if it's the final decision - I'll get on my ears and create a recreation.


First of all, you don't have to overlap interfaces,

For example, you don't have a column "distance from the current price to the stop", but I need it - so I need the whole list and if you just display texts, they will be put on top of a chart in the penultimate scale (when it's a set of one-pixel dots separated by a gap of one pixel) and they will become unreadable when the chart will be below them.

That's why I want to put a backing underneath these texts. This is a tried and tested solution(http://forextools.com.ua/trading/tm.html or http://for extools.com.ua/trading/tc/tc-begin.html).

And secondly, you can do a complete re-creation of panels - in this case there will be no problems with overlapping objects.

but why should i need such a gem on every tick? ;)

And if I use it to recreate all objects - it'll bother to process all that I've nailed down and then create, and blinking in the terminal (you've deleted and then created) doesn't look so smart.

 
ForexTools >>:

Ну не надо так пессимистично. Мы то на все это смотрим только со своей стороны, а про реальную ситуацию у них не знаем вообще ничего. Возможно (и почти наверняка) у них банально не хватает людей для того чтобы быстро и качественно исправлять все то, что находят ну наверно не меньше тысячи форумчан, которые находят ошибки и чтото предлагают. Судя по ситуации с MQL5 могу предположить что у них такиеже проблемы с торговыми серверами (банальный выход за проксю с закрытым 1950 портом не могут сделать еще с сентября прошлого года). И пока они не закроют дырки там, мы с вами с нашими проблемами будем у них ждать...........

А зря они не сделали хоть какойто закрыты форум на этапе проектирования. Многие сегодняшние проблеммы можно былобы обсудить еще тогда тогда и просто не допустить их, а сейчас... уже написаны миллионы строчек кода, чтото переделывать - просто рука не подымается потомучто боятся (наверно) что невинная правка в одном както работающем месте приведет к лавине других более серьезных ошибок. в результате - как в анекдоте

This is not a question of lack of resources, but of approach. Many firms fail to do something planned in time, yet they can still afford to call bugs by-products and failed design solutions as failed solutions, and at least plan to fix them, refactoring. But here everything is met with a hostility, as an attempt of derogatory attitude to their professional qualities, and as a result it has the opposite effect, i.e. it undermines the trust to these qualities even more. You cite an anecdote and mention a closed forum, but by the way both already work this way in reality. I applied to service-desk (closed for 4) about one bug. So, I had to explain for 2 weeks what it was, although I thought that the first time was quite enough for professionals, I was scolded for explaining them how Windows works and in the end the verdict was - we will not fix it not to break something else. ;-)
 
stringo >>:

Я не понимаю причин. Вернее понимаю, что Вам необходимо именно это решение здесь и сейчас.

excuse me, but why do i need all this forum and beta testing? where else should i go to find out what i need from your platform?


But I don't understand why you can't create the order you want. Too lazy to write?

i'm not lazy at all. i'm perfectly aware of your reactions and assuming that you don't want to change anything, i did it a long time ago and everything works even now. i just wanted to offer you to make your terminal more flexible and universal. i'll listen to the same complaints when others will start to stumble upon them after you release the terminal :(


Dare I quote from

Dare to follow my links and compare what those naysayers did with what I did.

The solution has been tested for a long time and is quite successful(http://forextools.com.ua/trading/tm.html or http://for extools.com.ua/trading/tc/tc-begin.html).

If I may say so, I have implemented in F4 the trading control by mouse clicks on chart what you are just now doing in 5 and I already know from practical experience many drawbacks, which you will find as well as I did. It's just that correcting them later will be an order of magnitude more difficult.


Let's stop the mutual recriminations - it's not constructive. This forum was created for communication between MQL-developers and programmers. I find something in your product that does not suit me, and not being able to arrange a poll and find out whether it is necessary for me or for someone else, I am writing from my own lips. I explain why I think something is not convenient or correct and propose possible solutions to the problem. You either accept my arguments and make corrections, or send me to the documentation, which says why and how something is done the way it is done. The usual routine work and I don't see any reason for personal insults here....

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