The battle: an efficient market and a TS with a positive maturity expectation. Who will win? - page 6
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Services to take money from the majority and pass it on to the minority? Very useful services...
One-sided thinking... Mosquitoes pester everyone in summer and everyone wants to get rid of them once and for all. But you can't do that because mosquitoes are food for a huge number of birds.
They do not take money from most people. They give it to them themselves. The child's position (oops, I was offended) is very convenient for shirking responsibility. I wasn't the one who allowed myself to be offended, I was the one who was offended by evil men. I wasn't the one who brought and gave my money, I was the one who was forced (by threats to make me a millionaire) to give it away. Isn't it time to become an adult and take responsibility for yourself, instead of blaming your failures on the market?
Are you saying that most traders take a "child's position"?
Traders don't give back to themselves. We traders are not the crazies you make us out to be.
The market changes and trading systems that were profitable in the past become unprofitable. The market is constantly changing to protect itself from traders' profits.
You think that the market fights with traders - by knocking stops - goes against the traders' positions, etc.?
So you think that there is a mechanism for this?
p.s.
i think otherwise
--- had a good trade this year working with the trend! I've been trading pretty good this year in a trend!
i don't think the market is struggling with traders, traders feed it with lots of losses and deposits
as a matter of fact, most traders' deposits are like a grain of sand in a sandbox.
Household traders have so little influence on the market that a grain of sand cannot influence the sand bucket
i.e. the market is just like a grain of sand with deposits of 1-100 kt in total - will the market reverse trends because of a grain of sand? - I don't think so
the fight is within us especially when we press the sell or buy button
The market is not actively struggling, it is just passively changing so that the stratum becomes at least not profitable.
As a result, commonly used indicators lose effectiveness over time.
It is passively - and hence the lag in market changes - that can be used to make profits.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is market asymmetry and the bulls rule and the bears rest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But why? Because the market changes quickly, and traders react to these changes slowly. We need to create an adaptive TS, which would constantly adapt to the market. And it would allow making profit all the time. Well, almost all the time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But what if there is a TS and an Expert Advisor using it? The Expert Advisor is profitable on history, but if it is used on the demo-register, it is unprofitable? But not at the beginning it is losing, but in the beginning we have profit, and then (when the market has changed) uncle Kolya comes.
I am ending my participation in this discussion. Tired.
Militant ignorance has won as usual.
Militant ignorance always wins... on the forums. The main thing is that it also necessarily loses in the marketplace, which can't help but make you happy. :)
no one can win a discussion like this one.
there's not even any interesting information in this discussion! - but it is interesting in itself!
interesting thoughts slip through in debates like this ... and maybe even a piece of interesting information.
I don't really care ... most people win or lose in the market! i'm not happy or sad about it ...
i work with trends, so i don't belong to the majority
As for the traders' forum, where I study, I used to spend the last two weeks observing how people sat down! Why do you ask?
i caught bounces and was scared - i closed on friday morning
this is how to understand the desire to sell in a wild uptrend! and rising in almost all timeframes
The market changes and trading systems that were profitable in the past become unprofitable. The market is constantly changing to protect itself from traders' profits.
From your statements I understand that you think the market is controlled, that stop loss events are happening on purpose so that it eats into traders' profits
how do you see it?
We do not know whether it is manageable or unmanageable, as we do not have enough information.
it's like 3 kids talking about probability theory
and i admit that i don't know either - i'm just trying to reason based on logic and life experience
It's an opinion I've encountered often - but no one has been able to justify it intelligently and intelligibly
even if it were true! such information about such a serious process should not be beyond the list of those who would arrange it
- being in one's right mind, one can imagine a CENTER controlling the market by collecting stops
now imagine a MARKET managed by a certain community has gone on a stop shopping spree - assuming of course a strong reversal
and then, bang, they put so much money that the stops they ate don't mean anything
you do not think that the market is a living creature in itself and gobbles up stops!
the market is not fighting with you! it can't fight you, but you are fighting with yourself divided into two/ buy and sell!
-----------------------
Traders do not give back themselves. We traders are not as crazy as you make us out to be.
The market changes and trading systems that were profitable in the past become unprofitable. The market is constantly changing to protect itself from traders' profits.
Do you think the market is fighting traders - knocking down stops - going against traders position and so on ?
So you think there is some kind of mechanism for this?
p.s.
I think otherwise
--- had a good trade this year working with the trend! the mainbuy team why the market has so nicely filled my pocket with profits ---
i don't think the market is struggling with traders, traders feed it with lots of losses and deposits
the mass of traders' deposits is like a grain of sand in a sandbox
Household traders have so little influence on the market that a grain of sand cannot influence the sand bucket
i.e. the market is just like a grain of sand with deposits of 1-100 kt in total - will the market reverse trends because of a grain of sand? - I don't think so
the fight is within us especially when we press the sell or buy button
The market is not actively struggling, it is just passively changing so that the stratum becomes at least not profitable.
As a result, commonly used indicators lose effectiveness over time.
It is passively - and hence the lag in market changes - that can be used to make profits.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is market asymmetry and the bulls rule and the bears rest.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But why? Because the market changes quickly, and traders react to these changes slowly. We need to create an adaptive TS, which would constantly adapt to the market. And it would allow making profit all the time. Well, almost all the time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But what if there is a TS and an Expert Advisor using it? The Expert Advisor is profitable on history, but if it is used on the demo-register, it will fail? But not at the beginning it is losing, but in the beginning we have some profit, and then (when the market has changed) uncle Kolya comes.
1 I REPEAT ! The market is not a living creature it doesn't know anything about your TS !
2) Expert Advisor is good - it trades better than most! go to the first page of the Championship and see for yourself!
----
i don't write EAs that will give you profit for life
but i can write a program that will give you profit for half a year
( i will correct it in half a year) i will double or even triple deposit in half a year
https://www.mql5.com/ru/users/meta-trader2007/ your TS?
to YuraZ
The market is like Greece, everything is there including stop hunting. Everyone uses the market in their own way, all speculation is based on "currency exchange".
Do you have an explanation of the mechanism of stop hunting by the MARKET itself?
to YuraZ
In the market, like in Greece, everything is there, including stop hunting. Everyone uses the market in his own way. All speculation is based on "currency exchange".
Do you have an explanation of the mechanism of stop hunting by the MARKET! does it make its own decisions to go after stops?
Are you saying that most traders take a "child's position"?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. And you are no exception. You, too, have taken the position of a child. You don't want to accept responsibility for your losses. You would rather justify them with the volatility of the market. And the fact that you are unwilling, unable or unable to keep up with the market, you are modestly silent about it.
Concerning the volatility of the market, a word or two. In fact, it is not as volatile as you want to make it out to be. What is the market? It's primarily people with their fears, their desires, their hopes. These are human emotions that have been constant for many hundreds of years. Just as most people have been driven by fear and greed, they still are. In that sense, the market is constant.
Services to take money away from the majority and pass it on to the minority? Very useful services...
One-sided thinking... Mosquitoes pester everyone in summer and everyone wants to get rid of them once and for all. But you can't do that because mosquitoes are food for a huge number of birds.
They don't take money from most people. They give it to them themselves. The child's position (oops, I was offended) is very convenient for shirking responsibility. I wasn't the one who allowed myself to be offended, I was the one who was offended by evil men. I wasn't the one who brought and gave my money, I was the one who was forced (by threats to make me a millionaire) to give it away. Isn't it time to become an adult and take responsibility for yourself, instead of blaming your failures on the market?
Are you saying that most traders take a "child's position"?
Traders don't give back to themselves. We traders are not the crazies you make us out to be.
The market changes and trading systems that were profitable in the past become unprofitable. The market is constantly changing to protect itself from traders' profits.
You think that the market fights with traders - by knocking out stops - goes against the traders' positions, etc.?
So you think that there is a mechanism for this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The market is not actively struggling, it is just passively changing so that the stratum becomes at least not profitable.
As a result, commonly used indicators lose effectiveness over time.
It is passively - and hence the lag in market changes - that can be used to make profits.
p.s.
i think otherwise
--- had a good trade this year working with the trend! Main buy team for some reason market has been filling my pocket with profits so nicely ---
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
market asymmetry is evident and the bulls rule and the bears rest.
I do not think the market is struggling with traders, traders feed it with craps and deposits
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But why? Because the market changes quickly, while traders react to these changes slowly. We need to create an adaptive TS, which would constantly adapt to the market. And it would allow making profit all the time. Well, almost all the time.
as a matter of fact, most traders' deposits are like a grain of sand in a sandbox.
Household traders have so little influence on the market that a grain of sand cannot influence the sand bucket
i.e. the market is just like a grain of sand with deposits of 1-100 kt in total - will the market reverse trends because of a grain of sand? - I don't think so
the struggle is within us especially at the moment of pushing the sell or buy button
----------------------
as you put it, i think that the market is managed, that stop price moves occur intentionally, so that it gobbles up traders' profits.
how do you see it?
We do not know whether it is manageable or unmanageable, as we do not have enough information.
it's like 3 kids talking about probability theory
and i admit that i don't know either - i'm just trying to reason based on logic and life experience
It's an opinion I've encountered often - but no one has been able to justify it intelligently and intelligibly
even if it were true! such information about such a serious process should not be beyond the list of those who would arrange it
- being in one's right mind, one can imagine a CENTER controlling the market by collecting stops
now imagine a MARKET managed by a certain community has gone on a stop shopping spree - assuming of course a strong reversal
and then, bang, they put so much money that the stops they ate don't mean anything
you do not think that the market is a living creature in itself and gobbles up stops!
the market is not fighting with you! it can't fight you, but you are fighting with yourself divided into two/ buy and sell!
-----------------------
The market is not a living market, but it is made up of living participants: traders, investors, asset managers.
The market is not managed from a CENTRE, it is self-governing.
The market manages itself, but sometimes it is manipulated by market makers (there are situations like this).
My life experience is not very long and I have not much experience in Forex - I am trader for about a year. I took a trading course in the end of 2005, read many books, both old and new. I rely more on logic. It is always right.
The market is like a SCINET from the movie Terminator - it is not alive, it is self-governing and it has no CENTRE.
to YuraZ
The market is like Greece, everything is there including stop hunting. Everyone uses the market in his or her own way, all speculation is based on "currency exchange.
Do you have an explanation of the mechanism of stop hunting by the MARKET! does it make its own decisions to go after stops ?
i'm not the one who perceives the market as a living being capable of thinking! and the author of this thread is implying that the market hunts for stops
I gave an allegorical example in order to make the right association, which best describes how the author perceives the market.
So you have not answered who you think is after the market - deliberately!
the idea of a conspiracy - i admit it - i do not deny it.
the big players - agreed! who do you mean by the big players! a group of BANKS ?
alone who can break the uptrend with a few figure reversals ! ?
to YuraZ
The market is like Greece, everything is there including stop hunting. Everyone uses the market in their own way, all speculation is based on "currency exchange".
Exactly like in Greece, but I wanted to add a little.
There are a huge number of financial transactions and events happening every day in the world. And some of them just force the exchange rate of one currency or another to reach a certain level, if only
for a few seconds. For example: expiry times of options or maturity dates of bonds will affect the price and the timing of these events.
There could be a hundred reasons for this. In my opinion, stop hunting is an understatement and just one of the episodes of the financial war on the market.
But what does this knowledge give us - absolutely nothing! The reason is that we can't take into account all of the 100 (for example) factors (to study them first, then calculate and then apply them).
I haven't bothered with it for a long time.
If there is a price movement, you have to try to use it and not to forecast it (I hate this word when it's applied to the market).
If the profit of the position comes to the planned (average on your system) - fix it, catch while there is!
P.S. Catch the mouse and eat slowly!