Investors Wanted For 100 Robot Test Accounts - page 2

New comment
 
code_poet:

Before this thread degenerates into an ugly, unnecessary name-calling-yo-mama-so-fat kind of tabloid gossip outlet and I start losing respect for many people that I once considered intelligent contributors in this forum…

I almost never comment on this kind of topic, but this one is just amazing. Starting from the assumption that you are in fact sincere, and that this isn't an attempted scam:

  • As 1005phillip says, you're asking people to hand over $10,000 to someone with no track record. This is absurd.
  • You're in effect asking for a six-month interest-free loan of $1,000,000 (100 x $10,000) to validate your system with and, on top of that, you're trying to charge people a maintenance fee for the privilege.
  • You give no indication why the system requires this very large amount of capital in order to validate it.
  • You give no indication why you are not making this proposal after at least running the system yourself for a period on a demo account.  
  • Leaving aside the complete lack of a track record, you quote a maximum drawdown which, in traditional investment terms, is very high (30% over a six-month period), but don't give any indication of the performance which investors may see to compensate them for the high level of risk.
  • Your description of the guarantee on the drawdown is strong on marketing-speak ("Curb System"), but is crucially lacking in details of how investors' funds will be protected. You refer to a control panel which can be used to configure the maximum drawdown, but this appears to be entirely under your control because you are not giving people the trading logic.
  • You give no evidence of your ability to manage the non-trivial task of administering 100 separate client accounts, or of the IT infrastructure which will support this.
  • You give no details of the instruments which will be traded, or of any broker requirements resulting from this (e.g. maximum spreads, access to particular currency pairs).
  • You make no mention of a website or any other collateral for your proposal.
  • You give no indication why you are not following the tried-and-tested route of giving people a trial version of your EA. MetaTrader has a uniquely vibrant market in automated systems.
  • You give no details of your geographical location, and whether you are registered with your local financial regulator to carry out this kind of investment activity. For example, if you are based in the US or UK, then your post to this forum is technically a criminal offence unless you are registered with the SEC/FSA.

Continuing with the assumption that this isn't an attempted scam, then I'm sorry that you're losing respect for contributors on this forum, but you are insulting their intelligence. 

 
code_poet:

So if you have an intelligent suggestion or constructive criticism let it flow, I welcome that but don’t assume right off the gate that this is a scam…

Here is my suggestion: In my opinion your mind is only set on taking, shown in almost every aspect of your writing. People spot this behavior immediately and turn there back subsequently. In my case with a hard remark. Maybe you do know how to write trading robots and your intentions are good. But your believe system portrayed is a selfish egocentric one. Not very good if your trying to market a product. If you set your mind to giving and portraying you actually want to help others, they just might give something in return. Greed is not good in trading, likewise in marketing.

edit: fixed spelling

 
There is a very popular joke on the trading floors saying that if anyone wants to make a million bucks trading, just start with a couple of millions. First I thought Code_poet's proposal was a joke, only now I realize he is dead serious. Good luck, mate. May be you are in a wrong forum.
 
EuroTrader:
There is a very popular joke on the trading floors saying that if anyone wants to make a million bucks trading, just start with a couple of millions.
( Also heard in variants such as "How do you make a small fortune in the airline business? Start with a large fortune. " )
 
Apparently this proposal is a no go but before closing the chapter I’d like to address some of jjc well articulated but slightly misguided concerns for the record. First I was not asking for a loan. The proposition was: 1) investor chooses a broker of his/her preference, opens an account under his/her name, not mine, keeping full control of the account and his/her funds; 2) investor lets me attach my robot for test in his account after discussing his robot preferences with me; 3) the robot trades on that account and hopefully leaves a decent profit on it as a reward to the investor for the trust deposited on me and my robot; or, the robot doesn’t do well, reaches the preset drawdown level (1, 2, 3, 30 or whatever percent), in which case the robot stops trading therefore stopping the test on that particular account. 4) The test reaches the end and the investor closes his/her account and pockets 100% of the profits. That’s it. I don’t know where this simple formula got so distorted. Other questions were: why didn’t I go the usual way and release the robot to the public for trial? Why 100 accounts? Why 10k dollars? Well, a simple answer for the first question is: software piracy. The robot has been thoroughly tested on demos to the point to be considered as stable. As a responsible programmer I had to be sure it wasn’t going to go haywire on anybody’s account. The other questions share the same answer: just simple, average round numbers, easy to manage. No Hocus-Pocus there either. Last, the $250 dollars fee. In retrospective, possibly it was an unfortunate choice of words. Perhaps I should’ve asked for a donation or contribution instead. The fact is that running the test would’ve cost money. This money would’ve been used in part for setting up the server that was going to run the robots. But that bird was shot too. I think what bothered people here the most was the fact that I wasn’t offering direct access to the robot. This was a security measure. I have to protect my intellectual property. The internet is a wild place where decompilers are just a mouse click away. Maybe EuroTrader was right. Maybe I’m in the wrong forum. Only history will tell who was wrong or right in this matter… Just remember, I came with an honest proposal. Perhaps it didn’t come across that way. I take full responsibility for that. Now I’m out… no hard feelings… peace!
 
code_poet:
 First I was not asking for a loan. [...] I don’t know where this simple formula got so distorted.

...because you specified a sum of money, with restrictions such as no trading by anyone other than you, but without any performance indication, let alone a guarantee. That's more like an interest-free loan rather than an investment.

 

I think what bothered people here the most was the fact that I wasn’t offering direct access to the robot.

I can't speak for other people, but I don't think this is the case. There are plenty of trading systems which are offered either as signal services or simply as managed accounts - i.e. no trading logic given to clients. I think the main sticking point was your unique proposal that people should hand over money to you without disclosure of any sort of track record.

Second on the list - and partly related to the track record - was probably the complete imbalance of risk between you and investors. The investors stood to lose n% of $10,000, plus $40 per month of activity. Your risk basically seems to have been limited to opportunity cost. 

 

Well put jjc

PEACE!

8)

 
code_poet:

I’m looking for 100 investors willing to volunteer life accounts to test my new robot for 6 months starting July 01. You keep all the profits resulting from this test. All I ask in return is a onetime $250 USD maintenance fee to cover for all my expenses during the Test Period which will end on December 31.

If at any point you are not happy with the robot’s performance, you can opt out of this Test and request that the robot be removed from your account. The maintenance fee will then be returned to you minus $40 dollars for every month the robot was attached to your account and the cost of the wire transfer.

Investors interested please post your email address here or send me a private message and I’ll send you an email with the requirements along with a brief description of the robot.

Are You Daft?

 
code_poet:
I think what bothered people here the most was the fact that I wasn’t offering direct access to the robot.

I have been following this thread with some interest (and amusement)... I admit that I was about to post some sarcastic remarks a few times, but people beat me to it... But I'd like to switch to 'helpful mode'. You have answered one of the posts here with "but can you read?", but it seems like u can't. Or you are not paying much attention to what people have been saying.

I'm pretty sure that most people here are NOT bothered by the fact that u r not offering direct access to the robot. We are all in the same business and we all have robots we wouldn't share with anybody. That's not the point at all... What's bothering us has been thoroughly pointed out by jjc, phillip and others, so I won't repeat it. Instead I want to illustrate by giving a simple example of how professional account managers offer their service.


The example is simply the first result of my Googling - it's a dude named Olexandr Topchylo, which apparently won the trading championship in 2007 and offers his services on his website (just to clarify: I don't know Olexandr, I have never tried his service and am not associated with him in any way... I have never even heard of him before accidentally Googling his website).

Check out: http://forex-pamm.com/. It will take you about 5 minutes to understand what we are all talking about. Compare the details you have given out to the wealth of information on Olexandr's website. Everything from who he is to the fine statistical points of his strategy and detailed trading statements of his accounts. Not surprisingly, he does not share his robot either and nobody expects him to. But he has a proven track record, detailed information about himself and about the performance of his strategy. That's what people want and need.


I recommend you take a few days to research and study how the managed account industry works. Then take a few months to build a proven track record and prepare any and all needed information that investors want/need. And lastly, this forum is not exactly the right place to recruit investors. The mere fact that u posted this here shows how much u (don't) know about managing accounts!

 
gordon:

I recommend you take a few days to research and study how the managed account industry works. [...]

I'll mention something else (alluded to above) which may well not come up in the course of research because many people simply ignore it. A managed-account service will constitute financial advice in most countries, and you will need to be authorised by a regulatory body in order to provide it (e.g. the FSA in the UK, and your state/the SEC in the US). Selling an EA for someone to run themselves is a slightly murky area. But code_poet's original plan almost certainly crosses the line because of who controls the EA, who has control over account transactions, the existence of remuneration for the service, and the restrictions placed on client activity (no trading except by code_poet).

The reality is that you can almost certainly fly under the regulators' radar, but only until/unless a client becomes dissatisfied with your service and thinks to complain to the regulator. At which point, you're in a lot of trouble. For example, providing investment advice in the UK without authorisation is a criminal offence potentially punishable by jail time. There's also the strong prospect of the client taking out a civil suit against you to cover any damages which fall outside investor compensation schemes.

And, no, it's not going to matter if the client was aware of this from outset. That may affect the client's access to compensation/damages, but it's not going to stop the regulator going after you. There are usually some exemptions for dealing with "professional" investors, but these criteria are generally very hard to meet. For example, you're very unlikely to come across anyone on this or any other MT4 forum who could be treated as an "elective professional" client under UK regulation.

In most jurisdictions it is also against the law to solicit or advertise for investment business without authorisation. Making code_poet's post technically illegal, depending on where he/she lives. <g>

123
New comment