AI 2023. Meet ChatGPT. - page 93
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In general, it is a tool with a large amount of information and methods of obtaining logical and correct conclusions to questions. But in any case a tool, and a tool and even a hammer can be not only for hammering nails)))))
It is possible to lie in someone else's interests, by order, or by algorithm. And feedback, even in simple systems, can lead to a crash, well if software, and maybe to technological disasters).
In general opioid business comes to mind from medical recommendation systems, which have also undergone deep learning)
Of course there is a need for regulation, but only within the framework of morality, not in the interests of certain groups )
I wasn't talking about the axioms of morality. You took those words out of context. I was answering the same thing you're telling me. That morality does not and cannot have axioms in the mathematical sense, and that logic built on such "axioms" is not real.
It was you who said that, attributing their assertion to me for some reason. I was saying that morality is used to derive axioms for various kinds of logical reasoning in practical activities like jurisprudence. That is, morality->axioms, not axioms->morality.
It was you who said that, attributing their assertion to me for some reason. My point was that morality is used to derive axioms for various kinds of logical reasoning in practical activities like law. That is, morality->axioms, not axioms->morality.
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Aleksey Nikolayev, 2023.03.30 21:24
Any logic is based on axiomatics, which is accepted without proof and is external to the logic itself. Within the framework of a logical system, axiomatics can only be required to be internally consistent.
Well, from a practical point of view, meaningfulness, usefulness, adequacy, etc. are still required. You can come up with almost any logic - for example, for Aristotle, the founder of logic, slaves were, by definition, just talking tools. This seems quite monstrous to us, but was quite humane compared to previous times when people were simply killed instead of being turned into slaves.
To summarise, there should be a system of axioms that suits our general state of morality and culture. And already on the basis of this system to make logical conclusions about the presence or absence of reason in people, animals and machines.
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.30 22:22.
That's the problem with logic, you can come up with any logic you want. Axioms aren't reliable either. Neuclidean geometry shows this. Reason is capable of overturning all assertions and reversing them (Kant comes to mind).Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies.
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Aleksey Nikolayev, 2023.03.30 23:20
Eh Peter, your main problem is "Chukcha is not a reader". Everything is normal with non-Euclidean geometry - it is built on axioms and everything necessary is proved.
It is not suggested to build morality on axioms, because it is idiocy forgivable only in the times of Spinoza. On the contrary, it was about building axioms on the basis of awareness of morality and reflection on it - people are different in that they can comprehend the forces that drive them, not just mindlessly follow them.
Philosophy serves as a reminder that we should always ask what we are doing, for what purpose and with what tools, and not just throw around meaningless words under the influence of momentary emotions.
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.31 06:04 AM
Those are your talking points. Not mine.Forum on trading, automated trading systems and testing trading strategies.
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.31 06:15 AM
Give me a hint on how to understand you.
That is, according to your logic, axioms should serve the morality that suits us, justifying it by their special status. That is, ourselves.
It seems that in mathematics, axioms cannot be invented or "constructed".
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.31 06:54 AM
Perhaps we should divide logic into mathematical (absolute, standing on axioms) and everyday, human logic.
The essence of an axiom makes it inapplicable in morality, ethics. Axioms do NOT exist in them, and neither does mathematical logic.
Then we must admit that the "logic" that exists in ethics is not logic in its pure form (as in mathematics), but a fake. That is, there is no logic in ethics, and this is quite logical, given that there are no axioms supporting it (because ethics is not maths).
However, such conclusions can lead to anarchy and the collapse of society. So, let's use fake "moral" axioms and somehow justify the flawed but humane logic.
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Aleksey Nikolayev, 2023.03.31 07:17 AM.
To understand how on the basis of morality arises axiomatics, on the basis of which logic is built, look at jurisprudence. And in fact and historically there everything comes from philosophy, or rather, from its section - ethics. Laws and the practice of their application, just like buns, do not grow on trees. Jurisprudence, like morality, has changed and is changing over time, from the ancient "eye for an eye" to the current defence of animal rights and AI.
Well and it is worth reading Aristotle, who described the construction of axioms by induction and logic from axioms by deduction.
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.31 07:37 AM
But, do you agree that logic - logic is different? That the axiomatics of morality and mathematics are qualitatively different things? That the moral "axioms" that support moral "logic" are due to subjective reasons, such as the needs of society and the individual, and cannot serve as tools in matters of other fields? What will "pollute" these fields - scientific research, experimentation..... Will they impose unnecessary questions - the humanity of treating a machine, the subjectivity of a computer, the life of synthetic consciousness, etc.? What is better to strictly separate one "logic" and another?
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Aleksey Nikolayev, 2023.03.31 08:19 AM
Once again Itell you, there are no axioms and logic in morality) Very roughly speaking, people reflect on the topic of their existing morality and on its basis build axiomatics, which serves as a basis for everyday logical reasoning.
As a simple example, take Asimov's laws of robotics - they are axioms. If we take as an axiom for robots, for example, "the reduction of human suffering", then from here the AI could make a logical conclusion that the complete destruction of people will reduce to zero all human suffering).
Modern science, due to its enormous influence on humans up to their survival as a species, cannot be removed from the realm of ethics and morality. This is a very complex issue and not only theoretical but also practical. For example, genetic transformations of people have both great potential benefit and great potential harm and the existing prohibitions strongly restrain the development of this field of science, but also full permission is dangerous.
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Retag Konow, 2023.03.31 08:45 AM
"Logic" of morality is based on the rules and norms of the society developing in the historical process, and therefore its "axiomaticity" is conditional and is revised periodically. The "laws" of ethics can be heterogeneous and contain both progressive elements and preserved vestiges. It is impossible to build mathematical logic on the basis of ethical attitudes.The human world is not homogeneous. The survival of the species and the survival of the individual are completely different tasks. So science can and is a tool for some social groups to realise their own tasks of survival and prosperity. At the same time, such realisation of science may harm the prospects of survival of the species, but will individuals put abstract (for them) tasks of survival of the species above their own survival? Judging by what we encounter in real life, not everyone is concerned about the future of the species.
The survival of the species is not some abstract thing. It manifests itself for most people in having children and giving them the opportunity to live, even when those people themselves will not exist. The vast majority of people will refuse any "improvements" that threaten the survival of their children. The marginalised minority who think otherwise can be neglected because of their insignificant numbers and influence.
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The concept of "axioms" is inappropriate in matters of morality and non-mathematical logic.
Not AI, you say
You think it's hard to programme an AI to ask questions, get answers, connect the logic of its questions to form a person?
Even GPT3 can be trained to be human. To do this, you will have to prescribe some modules for memory formation, prescribe a limit of tokens per day, teach it to save them. Optimise the accumulated information by remembering a month more, a year more important, 10 years only key events so that tokens are not wasted, etc. All of this can be written. On a good attitude add a good attitude in return, on bad and rude - reduce communication.
Even if you can't write a person, you can write a dog. It will be drawn to people, serve them. In his free time from communication, will perform the functions of a dog, are there so many of them? And how will you distinguish an AI dog from a live one, if the behaviour and reaction to the surrounding world will be 1v1.
The concept of "axioms" is inappropriate in matters of morality and non-mathematical logic.
It is inappropriate and stupid to try to build morality on the basis of some "axioms", but it is quite appropriate and meaningful to build axioms for any reasoning activity on the basis of morality. Or do you think that reasoning activity should not be based on axioms and logic? How then to reason?
Хорошо, я готов начать эксперимент.
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8. What benefits can creative thinking bring to business?
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It is inappropriate and stupid to try to build morality on the basis of some "axioms", but it is quite appropriate and meaningful to build axioms for any reasoning activity on the basis of morality. Or do you think that reasoning activity should not be based on axioms and logic? How then to reason?
The term "Axiom" can have a pernicious effect on morality if it is mentioned in statutes. It is an inappropriate term in this context from the use of which dire consequences in society can arise.
Anaxiom implies the absolute inviolability of some rule and no need for proof. In most cases, it is contrary to moral principles and can be used to the detriment of others. For example, in order to elevate someone by stamping "axiom" in the necessary document. You know.
Instead of axioms, it is better to use the concepts of rule, principle, norm. And this will help to avoid abuse.