Manual trading vs Automated trading - an open discussion - page 2
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I am not promoting my software. I bring it up as part of the conversation. The forum is a place to discuss ideas.
Are you a developer? I happen to have 25 years in development. It is a hard task and I ask for help to learn more. Don't you need help developing new technology?
Instead of threatening to "ban" me, you can add a comment to the conversation Fernando.
I am not promoting my software. I bring it up as part of the conversation. The forum is a place to discuss ideas.
Are you a developer? I happen to have 25 years in development. It is a hard task and I ask for help to learn more. Don't you need help developing new technology?
Instead of threatening to "ban" me, you can add a comment to the conversation Fernando.
He may be referring to @ Ricky991 comment who is promoting a broker which is violating the terms of forum
He may be referring to @ Ricky991 comment who is promoting a broker which is violating the terms of forum
Sorry about that. The conversation got interrupted by a “monitor” . Big brother is watching for some reason. This was a comment I should have taken off of the forum.
The reason why I started this thread is to get insight into what people are doing so my software meets peoples needs and maybe get some type of peer review. Mql5 is a community of a verity of different types of people, and it would be nice to see some better organized structure.
I would agree that manual trading is better, if you can control your emotions, However, I am located in Calgary, Canada, and the market is very active from 1 am to 7 am. That is the best time for me to sleep. So I like to use automated software to "help". I can set a manual position, then go to sleep. When I wake up the position is closed, often in a profit position.
I have noticed that I can read the market better than the automated software I am building. I can "see" the market better than my software can.
Chris
I personally feel better trading manually since my broker, <removed>, provides some of the best trading conditions, and using an EA is a bit expensive.
If you are a beginner, I suggest trading manually to understand forex trading before investing in an EA to do your trades.
Do you mean, manual trading is better than buying an EA program?
What do you mean by Expensive?
1. Price action ( candle analysis looking at the "types" of candles) : Price action I use for verification of chart patterns e.g. a triangle pattern breaking out with a custom marubozu (where upper wick is always lesser than lower wick and body ratio comparing to wick is greater than wick ratio ). i also use it for verification when a level comes to retest a s/r after breakout e.g. a support turned into resistance, where after breakout of a support, price comes back to support level and resist from there with any candle patterns, e.g. bearish engulf then its additional confirmation possible only due to price action study.
2. indicators can be read from a chart, such as Moving Average indicators ( 5, 13, 50, 200 and 800 samples) - I avoid using any indicator including MA, however they work for trend analysis only but any strategy based on them is harmful.
3. Fundamental Analysis - Taking indications from the news to consider movements in the market - I avoid 100% however if i dont watch any news and my positions are opened i have to be careful, so i just expect that my position are not opened when there is a news because news can fail any strongest technical analysis too.
4. Money Management - properly setting lot size, stoploss and take profit based historical chart. - When i trade with high leverage, eg. 70x of account, then its not possible to do RM and MM, i take full risk 100% of account in such case, but cap is always small e.g. $100, but when account is $10k+, its not possible to trade a single time without using MM and RM risking max 1% to 1.5% of cap in one trade.
5. Emotion plays a big part in the decision making to enter or exit a trade. - Yes, Despite my high accuracy setup, which is backtested on thousands of swings of same instrument, I make mistake sometime due to emotion, and this is unstoppable. I just want to make sure that when i make such emotion based mistakes, i dont lose more than 2% of my capital. then any human error is acceptable. I know that since my method is mechanical, I manually do analysis of swings and candlesticks so I accept that i will make error 25% time, so i prepare for it before initiating a trade. But with experience human errors due to emotions can be reduced and may be within 10% but they can never be 100% eradicated.
1. Price action is not real.... yu use live price data ( ie: per tick) : Any candle which is closed is studied for price action, Any open candle has no meaning in my knowledge and must not be used for analysis.
2. Indicators are the best form of making a decision for software. But I notice it does not read the charts the same as a human would. - I have seen many skilled developer who even coded me the complex task which i thought would never be possible, Inspiring from them I learnt coding in mql5 and its proud to say my system is 100% coded with complex things which i expected to be coded and its helping me 75% in mechanical analysis. So i commit it may read same chart as human could if a programmer is very knowledgable. Even psychology can be coded in mql5.
3. Fundamental Analysis - I have not implemented any kind of fundamental Analysis. Should I ? - I stay away from it as i am a day trader, but its a subject of study for investors who do not watch less than daily chart.
4. Money Management - The software I develop always has well designed money management methods - I can get the stoploss, take profit, calculate account size and risk very easily. - 100% It the heart of any system, without MM, strategy is baseless.
6. Software is a cold, calculating, no emotion machine. I get very emotional when I describe this heartless beast. - True, Software helps reducing emotion
1. What about fundamental Analysis? Is this important? So far I have not found a need. As anyone done something with this and had success? : It is important only if you are an investor and not a trader.
2. Is there a "Magic Indicator" or group of indicators that will have lots of trades with low drawdown? I usually can get only one or another. - If you seek any indicator which is developed by someone else, all your question are baseless. I expect the questions you ask are valid for a research analysts, not an explorer.
3. Is AI going to solve this problem? I first thought so but my recent experience has me questioning if this is so. - Maybe.
4. What about multiple accounts, multiply brokers, multiple symbols. I am considering some serious diversification. All it takes is one software bug to wipe out your account. Again a recent experience. Has anyone seen positive results using 10 or more trading accounts? - Yes, Choosing a good broker is always advisable otherwise even if there is a correct system is used in trading, a trader will always result in loss only, due to broker malpractice.
What are your favorite methods for manual day-trading and Automated software(EA) Trading? - Manual only.
Thank for your comments. You give me a lot to think about. I have some questions I was hoping you can answer.
1. You mention that you don't use Moving Average or any indicators and you also mention retest. Are you only doing Price action trading? Looking at peaks for retest? Can you give me an idea as to what you are doing?
2. I see you are only doing manual trading. Can you tell me why you are on this site? What is the benefit to you?
3. I recently changed my approach to software timing. I first set my timer to 1 second so that the software was running all the time. This caused the simulation to be very slow. I change it to 1 minute and I only check the last candle, not the current candle. Does this mean I can use 1 minute OHLC on the strategy tester? I assume ( and hope) that the "live" performance will be the same as the "1 minute OHCL". Have you done any testing on this?
Chris
I would agree that manual trading is better, if you can control your emotions, However, I am located in Calgary, Canada, and the market is very active from 1 am to 7 am. That is the best time for me to sleep. So I like to use automated software to "help". I can set a manual position, then go to sleep. When I wake up the position is closed, often in a profit position.
I have noticed that I can read the market better than the automated software I am building. I can "see" the market better than my software can.
Chris
If you think Market is active from 1 am to 7pm and you cant focus on screen that time, then you should first find out at what timeframe it really gives you entries with a fixed Stop Loss and TP within that specified time, and what is the accuracy over last 3 months of backtest, If it is above 65% then you can add manual orders with SL and TP and sleep, it will do the job, if it requires human interventions e.g. sometimes exiting early before SL hit after analyzing a trade failed to save some $ - this is example of emotional exit, If this is required then you have to avoid using manual advanced order or use EA.
If you think Market is active from 1 am to 7pm and you cant focus on screen that time, then you should first find out at what timeframe it really gives you entries with a fixed Stop Loss and TP within that specified time, and what is the accuracy over last 3 months of backtest, If it is above 65% then you can add manual orders with SL and TP and sleep, it will do the job, if it requires human interventions e.g. sometimes exiting early before SL hit after analyzing a trade failed to save some $ - this is example of emotional exit, If this is required then you have to avoid using manual advanced order or use EA.
Yes, I am doing something like that. I am watching the market for about 3-4 hours to find an opportunity that looks ready to move. Then I place a trade with a reasonable SL and TP. I then let’s software monitor it and it looks for positive and negative changes and makes adjustments.
Thank for your comments. You give me a lot to think about. I have some questions I was hoping you can answer.
1. You mention that you don't use Moving Average or any indicators and you also mention retest. Are you only doing Price action trading? Looking at peaks for retest? Can you give me an idea as to what you are doing?
2. I see you are only doing manual trading. Can you tell me why you are on this site? What is the benefit to you?
3. I recently changed my approach to software timing. I first set my timer to 1 second so that the software was running all the time. This caused the simulation to be very slow. I change it to 1 minute and I only check the last candle, not the current candle. Does this mean I can use 1 minute OHLC on the strategy tester? I assume ( and hope) that the "live" performance will be the same as the "1 minute OHCL". Have you done any testing on this?
Chris
1. No, I am non price action trader so i just buy / sell on fibo levels without confirmation of price action however I was a price action trader when i started. I only use "Measured move" and "Fibo" as of today's trading methods. I use some tactics to understand where price should stop e.g. price moves in blocks, explained in example below with example of leg size, so if price is taken retest at wave2 before reaching take profit, there is high probability that price would stop at size of Leg A of measured move at C. If it is not been retested then it may go 2x 3x or even 4x of leg size.
I use it with combination of Fibo Time, that says for reversal trading, Fibo time applied from A to B and when it reaches TP, it should be within 300%, if it goes beyond 300% then avoid trading because it violates the price and time synchronization and a big breakout may happen.
2. I am learning slowly to code with perfection, I feel i am not ready to invest full time in coding and give 6 to 8 months (which includes backtest on 100+ coins with different parameters and coding complex strategies) to build a program which will automate 100% of my trading methods, I am a full time trader more than a programmer so my earning sources are only from day trading so i am on the way to automation with money and code balance.
3. As per my research, only a closed candle should be studied, despite we know there are strategies which are made by studying ticks and volume, we should be aware that price action, Fibo and measured move techniques works regardless studying volume, market depth or ticks, They are only based on OHLC Data, if a broker provides wrong OHLC then these strategies may fail easily. So I would recommend if you have such strategy then only backtest in 1min or any other timeframe OHLC by studying candle 1 or beyond.