How to pay taxes on forex - page 8
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-Aleks-:
As far as the Alpari broker is concerned, they are wrong, in my view, to pay at the time of transferring the funds, because you should already have a bank account where your funds will be kept, which means that when you sell or buy an asset, you will receive the financial result in your account.
You do not need to pay at the moment of withdrawal, neither at Alpari nor in my posts. It says that the withdrawal amounts are used to determine the taxable base. And payment does take place at the end of the year. This, by the way, is the next point in Alpari's explanations. This is for individuals. Individual entrepreneurs now make their tax payment on a quarterly basis.
Here is another opinion on this http://pommp.ru/biznes-v-internet-2/uspeshnyiy-treyder-zaplati-nalogi-s-foreksa/ :
The tax base for personal income tax is income received in kind, in cash and in the form of material benefit. In Forex trading, the tax base arises at the moment the money is transferred to the trader's bank account.
As long as the income is reflected only in the form of an entry in the trading terminal of the DC (dealing centre), there is no base for taxation. When the trader decides to withdraw the earned money, i.e. withdraw them from the trading account, the obligation to pay tax arises.
-Aleks-:
Let's say the DC provides a certificate...
1) Try to convince at least one broker or DC to give you a certificate.
2) Even if you can do it, the certificate cannot be the basis for accounting and tax calculation. Contracts, invoices, deeds, invoices of sale in a classic business are used for this purpose. (In our business, only the transfer of money to the account and the contract of offer on the basis of which the transfer was made).
3) What will this certificate show? A listing of 10,000 transactions on 300 pages? Do you want the tax authorities to add up and subtract profitable and unprofitable transactions from the hard copy to calculate your financial result?
Tax has to be paid on what you have withdrawn into your bank accounts.
You are fairy tales, however, profit in the RF and for this business is considered... Read Medvedev's decree.
elibrarius:
Neither Alpari nor my posts say to pay at the time of withdrawal. It does say that withdrawals are used to determine the taxable base. And payment does take place at the end of the year. This, by the way, is the next point in Alpari's explanations. This is for individuals. Individual entrepreneurs now make their tax payment on a quarterly basis.
How is it not said, here's a quote:
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When withdrawing funds, the company will withhold personal income tax from the amount that the client has specified in the Withdrawal Order;
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and there's not even a stipulation that the amount is withheld from the profits. Yes, the broker is a tax agent and must withhold personal income tax from any monies, but you have to wait for the tax period to determine the tax base, as I understand it, withholding monies before the end of the tax period is fair in the case of termination of the brokerage agreement - the rule in Article 214.1.12 of the Tax Code.
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In this case expenses which cannot be directly attributed to reduction of income from operations with securities or from operations with financial instruments of term transactions circulating or not circulating on organized market or to reduction of corresponding type of income shall be allocated proportionally to share of each type of income and shall be included to expenses in determination of financial result by tax agent at the end of tax period and also in case of termination before the end of tax period of the last contract for If there is no income of the respective type in the tax period in which the expenses were incurred, the expenses are accepted in the tax period in which the income is recognised.
...
"
1) Try to convince at least one broker or DC to give you a certificate.
2) Even if you succeed, the certificate cannot be the basis for accounting and tax calculation. That is what contracts, invoices, deeds, invoices of sale in a classic business are used for. (In our business, only the transfer of money to the account and the contract of offer on the basis of which the transfer was made).
3) What will this certificate show? A listing of 10,000 transactions on 300 pages? Do you want the tax authorities to add up and subtract profitable and unprofitable transactions from the hard copy to calculate your financial result?
Was apparently wrong, indeed in the RF an agent (broker) must withhold tax at the date of payment, taking into account intermediate results.
Lots of answers to questions here Art 226.1 of the RF Tax Code:
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1. The tax base on operations with securities, on operations with financial instruments of forward deals, on REPO operations with securities and on securities lending operations shall be determined by the tax agent at the end of the tax period, unless otherwise provided by this article.
2. The tax agent when receiving income from transactions (including those registered in the individual investment account) with securities, transactions with financial instruments of term transactions, when making payments on securities for the purposes of this Article, as well as Articles 214.1, 214.3, 214.4 and 214.9 of this Code and income received as material benefit from the specified transactions and defined in accordance with Article 212 of this Code, shall be the tax agent:
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1.1) A forex dealer carrying out transactions with individuals on the basis of contracts stipulated in clause 1, Article 4.1 of the Federal Law "On the Securities Market". In this case, the tax agent shall determine the tax base of the taxpayer for all types of income from the above operations performed by the tax agent in the interests of this taxpayer;
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4. In determining the tax agent's tax base for operations involving securities, the tax agent may take into account actually incurred and documented expenses which are associated with the acquisition and safekeeping of the relevant securities and which the taxpayer incurred without the participation of the tax agent, including before concluding an agreement with the tax agent, whereby the tax agent shall determine the tax base of the taxpayer on the basis of an application from the taxpayer.
As documentary proof of respective expenses an individual shall present originals or duly certified copies of documents on the basis of which this individual made respective expenses, broker's reports, documents confirming the fact of transfer of rights on respective securities to the taxpayer and the fact and amount of payment of respective expenses. Should the natural person submit the original documents, the tax agent shall be obliged to make certified copies of such documents and keep them for five years.
5. The tax agent shall also be obliged to calculate and withhold tax not fully withheld by other persons recognised as tax agents in respect of income paid (if the tax agent has relevant information), including where payments are made to the taxpayer as a result of transactions for which the tax base is determined in accordance with Articles 214.1, 214.3 and 214.4 of this Code.
The tax amount shall be calculated and withheld in accordance with this paragraph on the basis of information provided to the tax agent by the issuer of the securities and (or) other persons in the manner and within the time limits established by the federal executive body authorised for the control and supervision of taxes and levies.
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7. Tax shall be calculated and withheld by tax agent in case of transactions with securities and transactions with financial instruments of term transactions according to the procedure specified in this Chapter in the following terms
At the end of the tax period
Before the expiry of the tax period;
Before the expiry of the contract in favour of an individual.
Tax shall be calculated and paid by the tax agent when paying such income in favour of the natural person in the manner prescribed by this Chapter.
8. At payment by the tax agent of money (income in kind) before expiration of the tax period or before expiration of the contract in favour of the natural person, the amount of tax shall be calculated from the tax base defined in accordance with Articles 214.1, 214.3 and 214.4 of this Code.
9. Unless otherwise provided for in Article 214.9 of this Code, the tax agent shall pay the tax withheld from the taxpayer within one month from the earliest of the following dates:
1) the end date of the relevant tax period;
2) the date of expiry of the latest by the commencement date of the contract on the basis of which the tax agent makes a payment of income to the taxpayer in respect of which it is recognised as a tax agent
3) date of cash payment (transfer of securities).
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10. The tax agent shall be obliged to withhold the calculated amount of tax from the taxpayer's rouble-denominated cash held by the tax agent on brokerage accounts, special brokerage accounts, special client accounts, special depositary accounts, nominee accounts of a forex dealer or on bank accounts of a tax agent - trustee used by the above manager for the separate storage of cash of founders of management, based on the balance of rouble-denominated cash of the client on the respective
...
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9. Если иное не установлено статьей 214.9 настоящего Кодекса, налоговый агент уплачивает удержанный у налогоплательщика налог в срок не позднее одного месяца с наиболее ранней из следующих дат:
...
3) дата выплаты денежных средств (передачи ценных бумаг).
it follows that not only must you withhold - but also pay.... At first I thought that the broker would withhold on payment and deposit it into the treasury at the end of the year...
It makes sense, taxes will be guaranteed to be paid, because the broker/CC may go bankrupt before the end of the year.
It seems to me that if you calculate and pay taxes yourself when you receive money from non-residents, you can also pay tax at the end of the year.
elibrarius:
1) Try to convince at least one broker or DC to give you a reference.
-Aleks-:
The broker's report is obligatory (required for determination of NOB), in VTB24 and BCS exactly, including their Cypriot subsidiary.And non-resident brokers? Will they also do it? And if they give you this 300-page listing - you will go broke on a notarized translation )))).
I do not (yet) plan to get such a certificate. Unless the tax office itself requests it.
I am going to work with non-residents to be able to make payments to the IP account and pay 6%. More precisely, a transfer to the account of a physical person, but the tax to be paid as a sole proprietorship.
From what you have found:
it follows that not only must you withhold - but also pay.... I thought at first that the broker would withhold on payment and pay it to the treasury at the end of the year...
It makes sense, taxes will be guaranteed to be paid, because the broker/CC may go bankrupt before the end of the year.
It seems to me that if you calculate and pay taxes yourself when you receive money from non-residents, you can also pay tax at the end of the year.
Indeed, the tax is paid and withheld more urgently by the tax agent.
The point is that more tax may be withheld than would have been due at the end of the year, in which case it is advisable to file a 3-PIFL return and attach supporting documents - the broker's report and a 2-PIFL certificate from the broker.
Are the brokers non-residents? Will they also provide it? And if they will give you this 300-page listing - you will lose your money on notarized translation )))).
I do not (yet) plan to get such a certificate. Unless the tax office itself requests it.
After all, I am going to work with non-residents to be able to make payments to a PE account and pay 6%. More precisely, transfer to the account of a physical person, but pay tax as a sole proprietorship.
The non-residents shall submit the broker's report - it is a normal practice (as I understood from the experience of clients), what cannot be said about DCs.
Indeed, the documents should be translated, but there is no need to certify - the one who submitted the documents is responsible.
About IE - the tax office checks the turnover of the account, and if they do not match the declaration, they are interested in the reasons for the discrepancy, so there is a probability that no one will ask where the money comes from, but this does not mean that you can do so ...
Forex was only written into the laws last year - the laws began to work this year, which means that in 2017 there will be a clarification of these rules by September.