FORTS: Inefficient Transaction Fee - page 6

[Sergey Chalyshev]

Михаил:
And in the morning session you can "devour" all 2,000, then there will be nothing left for the others...

It can't be, there is no logic.

2,000 applies as much to one session as to anything else, from 19:00 to 18:45.

[Mikhail Filimonov]

Take advantage:

https://www.mql5.com/ru/forum/67298/page2#comment_2090375

[[Deleted]]

Михаил:

The amount of fees for each instrument does not matter.

What does matter is the TOTAL fee of the exchange.

There is another pitfall - the allocation of 2000 transactions across 3 sessions.

Sergey Chalyshev:
No, it's sufficient to simply calculate the commission for the current session.

I do not agree. Michael himself asked the technical support and got an answer:

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FORTS: Inefficient Transaction Fee

Michael, 2015.11.25 13:55

The answer has arrived!

Верно, объем заявки, сделки - не важен.

 С уважением,
Глеб Кочнев
Техническая поддержка ПАО Московская Биржа
[phone] | [e-mail]

 
 
--- Первоначальное сообщение ---
С: 
Отправленные: 25.11.2015 0:16:09
По: [e-mail]
Копия: 
Тема: Re[2]: Сбор за неэффективные Транзакции (N602821N)
 

Добрый день, Глеб!

Осталось выяснить следующий ньюанс.

Из формулы по расчёту неэффективных транзакций
не ясен параметр "l"
l – балл для Сделки, заключенной с указанием одного из Разделов (определенный по типу Сделки в соответствии с Таблицей 1).
Имеется ввиду, что формула не учитывает объём сделки?
Т.е 1 сделка - 40 баллов и неважно каким объёмом она была совершена?

Михаил

I asked the tech support myself:

Do I understand correctly that:
1. this formula becomes relevant after the threshold of 2000 transactions has been crossed between the two evening clears?
2. The fee for inefficient transactions will have to be paid if the threshold of 2000 transactions is passed and if there are less than 25 transactions by this point (in the example for the RTS Index) (40*2*25 = 2000)?
3. if there are less than 80 transactions per trade (in the RTS index example), no matter how many transactions there have been between clears, there will be no charge for ineffective transactions?
4. Parameter f (clearing fee) for RTS futures = 2 for 1 lot volume? I.e. if the transaction is for example 3 lots, then in the formula f * l = 2*3*40?

And got the answer:

Good afternoon,

For the first three questions you get it right, but the fourth question does not take into account the number of lots. You pay for the transaction, not for lots in it.

Conclusion: the payment - for transactions (the load on the server)! The paid commission does not play a role! And since the commission does not play a role, it means - you must consider transactions and deals for each instrument. Just think logically, if the commission was the only factor, what would be the point in introducing the formula, all sorts of tables? You would just say that for each ruble spent on commission you could perform as many transactions as you wanted. Another argument. The brokerage company will earn more, if the commission is not taken into account, because the one who has deals of 10 lots (more commission) and the one who has 1 lot (less commission) with the equal number of transactions will pay for the oversubscription!

Here is an example:

We have performed 25 trades of 1 lot each on the RTS Index for 2500 transactions. The formula will be: 0.1 * (2500 - 25*2*40) = 50r. (Penalty) + the commission paid 25*2*1 = 50p.

You performed 25 trades of 10 lots each on the RTS Index for 2500 transactions. The formula will be: 0.1 * (2500 - 25*2*40) = 50p (not 0.1 * (2500 - 25*2*40 * 10) < 0). We paid a commission of 25*2*10 = 500 p.

[Mikhail Filimonov]

Alexei!

I'm sorry, but you're in a bit of a mess.

Once again.

The exchange considers a transaction ineffective if:

k is the BALES for ALL transactions

f - the sum of exchange and clearing fees

exchange fee - COMMISSION OF THE EXCHANGE

clearing fee - the exchange commission on the day of expiration

l - points of the transaction

THEN

The transaction is INDEPENDENT if:

( Total number of transactions * 1 point - exchange commission * 40 points ) > 0

These transactions are counted by the exchange.

If the threshold of 2000 is exceeded - penalty.

My yesterday's example:

Penalty 61,1 rub.

Made (total) transactions 2111

Exchange commission - 37.5 rubles.

Calculate:

Penalty = 0.1 * ( 2111 * 1 - 37.5 * 40 ) = 61.1 rub.

And another example:

Suppose before transactions we made 1500 transactions - all of them are NOT effective and they are counted by exchange

Then we performed N transactions and received a commission of 37,5 rubles. This is 1500 transactions BUT

the exchange has already counted 1500 ineffective transactions, hence (regardless of transactions) all following transactions will be TOO

transactions will be also ineffective.

(There's a reason the exchange came up with this trick to rip us off :) )

[[Deleted]]

Михаил:

Thanks, it's sorted!

[[Deleted]]

Михаил:

And another example:

Let's say before transactions we made 1500 transactions - all of them NOT effective and they were counted by the exchange

Then we made N transactions and received a commission of 37,5 rubles from the exchange. This is 1500 transactions BUT

the exchange has already counted 1500 ineffective transactions, hence (regardless of transactions) all following transactions will be TOO

transactions will be also inefficient.

(There is a reason for the exchange to come up with such a gimmick, to rip us off :) )

1500 transactions with no transactions are not Ineffective transactions. I don't think they should be called anything at all. Up to 2000 it doesn't matter how many transactions are open and how many transactions are sent. There will be no penalty.

[Mikhail Filimonov]

Alexey Kozitsyn:
1500 transactions with no transactions is not an EFFECTIVE transaction. I don't think they should be called anything at all. Up to 2000, it doesn't matter how many transactions are open and how many transactions are sent. There will be no penalty.

You are hard to change your mind!

You have the right to do as you see fit. :)

Only the day before the 61.1 roubles were issued.

The exchange "charged" me a penalty of RUB 208.1.

I haven't made ONE transaction during this day and the total number of transactions was 2081.

Think about it!

https://www.mql5.com/ru/forum/67673/page3#comment_2084423

[[Deleted]]

Михаил:

You are hard to change your mind!

You have the right to do as you see fit. :)

Only the day before the 61.1 ruble was issued.

The exchange "charged" me a penalty of RUB 208.1.

I had not executed ONE transaction during this day and the total number of transactions was 2081.

Think about it!

https://www.mql5.com/ru/forum/67673/page3#comment_2084423

Now, there is no need to change your mind, you just need to follow the rules and not exceed 2000 transactions if the total commission is small.

You do realize that in the case of the 208.1 p. fine, you could have opened one transaction with a commission of more than 52.025 and avoided the fine, right? In this case, by your logic, 2079 transactions would have been ineffective. But there would have been no penalty.

[Mikhail Filimonov]

Alexey Kozitsyn:

There is no need to change your mind now, you just have to follow the rules and not exceed 2,000 transactions if the total commission is small.

You do realise that in the case of the 208.1 p. fine you could have opened one transaction with a commission of more than 52.025 and avoided the fine, don't you? In this case, by your logic, 2079 transactions would have been ineffective. But there would have been no penalty.

Alexey!

Please make up your mind :)

Didn't you write:

>1500 transactions with no transactions are not Inefficient transactions. I don't think they should be called anything at all. Up to 2000 it doesn't matter how many transactions are open and how many transactions are sent. There will be no penalty.

1500 transactions with no transactions is exactly the INeffective transactions!

Another thing is the number of them!

P/S That's why I reworked the functions to count ineffective transactions :)

[[Deleted]]

Михаил:

Alexey!

Please make up your mind :)

Weren't you the one who wrote:

>1500 transactions with no transactions are not Inefficient transactions. I don't think they should be called anything at all. Up to 2000 it doesn't matter how many transactions are open and how many transactions are sent. There will be no penalty.

1500 transactions with no transactions is exactly the INeffective transactions!

Another thing is the number of them!

Where am I wrong about that? Honestly, I don't know what the argument is about!? Inefficient transactions, in exchange terms, are a condition:

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FORTS: The charge for inefficient Transactions

Michael, 2015.12.04 09:00

Up to 2000 transactions are no transactions (or both inefficient and ineffective at the same time). Again, they should not even be called anything in this case. There is no need to even think about them.

But you, for some reason, persist in calling 1500 transactions inefficient, seemingly because they don't lead to trades. So what if they don't? You count them - fine, I agree, you should. But the concept of "inefficiency" should only be introduced when:

1. there are more than 2000 transactions;

2. The condition from the formula is greater than 0;

Only when both of these conditions are met, then yes - transactions are inefficient. This is what the documents say, why distort the facts?