How many points/day is the line between amateur and professional trader

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Hi guys,

Do you have any number (points) in your mind that the time you pass the line between amateur and professional?

 
At list from 60pips to 100pips
 
Guys please teach me how to trade forex market
 
MEHMET FATIH BARUT:

Hi guys,

Do you have any number (points) in your mind that the time you pass the line between amateur and professional?

Why do you count points/pips per day? It means nothing without the risk/reward ratio. Is an account of 100K making 60 pips of 0.01 lot volume a day is equal an account of 1K making 10 pip of 0.1 lot?
 
MEHMET FATIH BARUT:

Hi guys,

Do you have any number (points) in your mind that the time you pass the line between amateur and professional?

When you are professional you don't ask such question any more. Which by the way doesn't make sense, as explained by Amir.
 
Steve Davidson:
At list from 60pips to 100pips

thanks

 
Amir Yacoby:
Why do you count points/pips per day? It means nothing without the risk/reward ratio. Is an account of 100K making 60 pips of 0.01 lot volume a day is equal an account of 1K making 10 pip of 0.1 lot?

Before I take risk, I need to know whether my strategy is good enough to risk.

 
MEHMET FATIH BARUT:

Before I take risk, I need to know whether my strategy is good enough to risk.

You can't make pips before you take risk. In the very attempt to do it - opening a sell or a buy - you take risk. You seem to ignore that totally. Each trade has a risk, if you are not aware of that, you will have a problem. So you must know the risk you took in order to produce those pips, and if so - then measure the risk-reward, don't measure only the reward. And even that is not really correct - because pips don't measure even the reward correctly - as posted before.

That's why pips a day will not tell you if your strategy is good. 

 
Amir Yacoby:

You can't make pips before you take risk. In the very attempt to do it - opening a sell or a buy - you take risk. You seem to ignore that totally. Each trade has a risk, if you are not aware of that, you will have a problem. So you must know the risk you took in order to produce those pips, and if so - then measure the risk-reward, don't measure only the reward. And even that is not really correct - because pips don't measure even the reward correctly - as posted before.

That's why pips a day will not tell you if your strategy is good. 

I don't believe that is true. I spent 3 months to increase my daily income from -x to +3000 points/day (considering the market's fluidity still very low amount).

And in every day I felt I step on a much more solid ground. Points/day gives you a very good clue to see whether your strategy is working or not.

We are traders (who rely on mathematical equations and statistical analysis) not gamblers otherwise we should have a main subject in this forum with the title "martingale" .

When you feel you stand on your feet than you can start to calculate risk reward ratio that is another kind of art you should be master.

 
MEHMET FATIH BARUT:

I don't believe that is true. I spent 3 months to increase my daily income from -x to +3000 points/day (considering the market's fluidity still very low amount).

And in every day I felt I step on a much more solid ground. Points/day gives you a very good clue to see whether your strategy is working or not.

We are traders (who rely on mathematical equations and statistical analysis) not gamblers otherwise we should have a main subject in this forum with the title "martingale" .

When you feel you stand on your feet than you can start to calculate risk reward ratio that is another kind of art you should be master.

Mathematically a strategy that makes 500 points does not neccessarily make more profit - because the volume is part of equation you don't consider.

How do you calculate the points daily if the trades have different volumes? Or-you open same volume each trade? And if it's same volume(0.01?) then you can count points because you take the equation for reward VOLUME*POINTS which is the correct one, and you simplify it by always openning 0.01 lots.
But it's still lacking in that you don't know the risk your strategy can take - I do think it's valid to also start with reward with minimum risk (by always using minimum volume) like you do, as long as you don't forget to later check the risks the strategy can stand because the problem starts once you increase the volume - and don't know to what you can increase it to.

*also there might be a situation where you just waste your time on a strategy that's only making points/pips because you risk so little that it's not viable to risk more with it. In other words, it's a bad strategy once you will try to increase the volume to also earn MONEY and not just points - and the only reason you now earn points daily is the very low risk taken - such that is not worth it in money terms. Such a simplified example can be an account of 100K making 300 0.01 pips daily -  lets say withuot stop loss at all - or a stop loss of 1000 pips. This can earn points but once you will try to earn money and raise the volume - the losses will be too much.

 
Amir Yacoby:

Mathematically a strategy that makes 500 points does not neccessarily make more profit - because the volume is part of equation you don't consider.

How do you calculate the points daily if the trades have different volumes? Or-you open same volume each trade? And if it's same volume(0.01?) then you can count points because you take the equation for reward VOLUME*POINTS which is the correct one, and you simplify it by always openning 0.01 lots.
But it's still lacking in that you don't know the risk your strategy can take - I do think it's valid to also start with reward with minimum risk (by always using minimum volume) like you do, as long as you don't forget to later check the risks the strategy can stand because the problem starts once you increase the volume - and don't know to what you can increase it to.

*also there might be a situation where you just waste your time on a strategy that's only making points/pips because you risk so little that it's not viable to risk more with it. In other words, it's a bad strategy once you will try to increase the volume to also earn MONEY and not just points - and the only reason you now earn points daily is the very low risk taken - such that is not worth it in money terms. Such a simplified example can be an account of 100K making 300 0.01 pips daily -  lets say withuot stop loss at all - or a stop loss of 1000 pips. This can earn points but once you will try to earn money and raise the volume - the losses will be too much.

I will quit forex if you know something.

I don't understand why simple calculation is not working.

if your strategy provides 1000 points a day multiply it 0.01 to get 10 dolars, 0.1 to get 100 dolars and 1 to get 1000 dolars.

That simple. That depends the size of your account. If you have 1000 dolars in your account use the volume 0.01 and don't risk yourself, if you have 50.000 dolars use the volume 1 and get richer.

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