Wrong calculation on 1 month (-100%? not at all!) of my signal provider account). - page 3

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Fernando Carreiro:

I stated, Opening Balance + Profits. The 2000USD includes profits, so a 200USD loss is only 10% loss!

EDIT: I have edited my previous post and highlighted the section for easier reference.

EDIT2: In your case, even though you made 2 more deposits in July, your Opening Balance + Profits & Loses equaled $315.78 at the end of July and $-35.15 at the end of August (111.131% loss).

You are probably right about how it's calculated by Metaquotes, however I agree with @Vaclav Macak and that doesn't make sense to me. Of course deposit/withdrawal should not be taken into account to calculate growth% in the period they are made.

1° If we talk about YTD. Initial deposit is 300 USD. Current balance is 953.65 USD, 603 USD of new deposit, give us a balance compared to initial deposit of 350.65 USD.

From 300 USD to 350.65 USD, how that could be a -100% YTD ?

2° Talking about August % growth. August starting balance without additional deposit is 313.85 USD, end August balance is -81.16 USD (ok one of us made a mistake while calculating begin/end August balance but that doesn't matter here), so ok all is lost. But that doesn't make sense at all, what allow us to say the end August balance would have been the same without the additional deposit ? Obviously having more balance allow you to open more or greater lots.

A month growth should be calculated from balance at start of the month versus balance at end of the month (removing deposit/withdrawal in that month).

Otherwise what that means, a signal is started and you can't never add or remove to your balance ? That's insane.

Maybe I am missing something, but I am convinced there is something wrong there.

But you should remember that these are signals that are available for subscription by other users and so the numbers have to be calculated so that they are not misrepresented by extra deposits or withdrawals.

EDIT: I understand your point, however again that doesn't make sense. A monthly growth is a monthly growth, an YTD is an YTD, it's the same for everyone. The subscribers volume is calculated proportionally to his balance and the one of the provider, if the provider balance increase, all other conditions being the same, the lot size will decrease, so the risk.

 
Enrique Dangeroux:

Well in *their* defense.

This is a recent change in calculation on the MQL5 site. Before it was the same here as on the *other* website, where all stats are based on the TWR which does not include deposits/witgdrawals.

MQ5 seems to be now  based on absolute gain, which is far more realistic. But paints a less pretty picture.

Was these changes announced or explained somewhere ?

What is "TWR" ?

 
Alain Verleyen:

You are probably right about how it's calculated by Metaquotes, however I agree with @Vaclav Macak and that doesn't make sense to me. Of course deposit/withdrawal should not be taken into account to calculate growth% in the period they are made.

1° If we talk about YTD. Initial deposit is 300 USD. Current balance is 953.65 USD, 603 USD of new deposit, give us a balance compared to initial deposit of 350.65 USD.

From 300 USD to 350.65 USD, how that could be a -100% YTD ?

2° Talking about August % growth. August starting balance without additional deposit is 313.85 USD, end August balance is -81.16 USD (ok one of us made a mistake while calculating begin/end August balance but that doesn't matter here), so ok all is lost. But that doesn't make sense at all, what allow us to say the end August balance would have been the same without the additional deposit ? Obviously having more balance allow you to open more or greater lots.

A month growth should be calculated from balance at start of the month versus balance at end of the month (removing deposit/withdrawal in that month).

Otherwise what that means, a signal is started and you can't never add or remove to your balance ? That's insane.

Maybe I am missing something, but I am convinced there is something wrong there.

You have to look at closing dates and not opening dates!

As for the rest, the reason is that it is a Signal for subscription, therefore you cannot and should not manipulate it with extra deposits or withdrawals.

 
Fernando Carreiro:

You have to look at closing dates and not opening dates!

I said it doesn't matter. But as you insist, I know very well how to get a month starting/ending balance, maybe I made an error but please don't be patronizing. FYI I included swap and commission and my numbers are correct, yours are not.

As for the rest, the reason is that it is a Signal for subscription, therefore you cannot and should not manipulate it with extra deposits or withdrawals.

There is no manipulation here. If it is not allowed to deposit/withdraw, it should be in the Signals rules.

 
Alain Verleyen: I said it doesn't matter. But as you insist, I know very well how to get a month starting/ending balance, maybe I made an error but please don't be patronizing. FYI I included swap and commission and my numbers are correct, yours are not.

There is no manipulation here. If it is not allowed to deposit/withdraw, it should be in the Signals rules.

Don't assume always that I have ill intent. It was not patronizing. It was just reflex reply, as I was answering several posts at the same time.

As for the signal rules, I was just justifying why the calculations are done that way, so that it does not affect the statistics and not have users try to manipulating them with deposit/withdrawal work-rounds.

 
Fernando Carreiro:

Don't assume always that I have ill intent. It was not patronizing. It was just reflex reply, as I was answering several posts at the same time.

You are right. Let's move forward.

As for the signal rules, I was just justifying why the calculations are done that way, so that it does not affect the statistics and not have users try to manipulating them with deposit/withdrawal work-rounds.

Don't assume always that users have ill intent ;-)

If you change your balance while you have open trades with serious drawdown, it's a problem. But in the discussed case, what is the problem ? Wrong stats, I see nothing else.

 
Alain Verleyen: Don't assume always that users have ill intent ;-)

Very funny [sarcastically]! From what I have seen from Signal providers, I have seen plenty of ill intent!

Alain Verleyen: But in the discussed case, what is the problem ? Wrong stats, I see nothing else.

Sorry, but I don't quite understand your point! Which case are you referring to - the Alfonso the OP's case or Vaclav's case?

In either case, I agree with MetaQuotes calculations, as well as their policy. There are many things I hate about MetaQuotes' implementations and policies, but in this case I agree with them because signal subscribers need some protection and this method of calculation seems quite adept and alerting subscribers to dangerous situations. The calculations are not preventing users from continuing to use these signals, it is just warning them of potential problems.

 
Fernando Carreiro:

Very funny [sarcastically]! From what I have seen from Signal providers, I have seen plenty of ill intent!

Sorry, but I don't quite understand your point! Which case are you referring to - the Alfonso the OP's case or Vaclav's case?

In either case, I agree with MetaQuotes calculations, as well as their policy. There are many things I hate about MetaQuotes' implementations and policies, but in this case I agree with them because signal subscribers need some protection and this method of calculation seems quite adept and alerting subscribers to dangerous situations. The calculations are not preventing users from continuing to use these signals, it is just warning them of potential problems.

Vaclav which is the only one I analyzed.

I got your point, but that means you can not deposit or withdraw after the initial deposit as a signal provider.

 
Alain Verleyen:

Vaclav which is the only one I analyzed.

I got your point, but that means you can not deposit or withdraw after the initial deposit as a signal provider.

You can, but:

  • The provider has to take into consideration the impact it will have on subscribers as well as on the strategy. If they don't adjust position sizing in accordance with the change in balance, it could impact the profitability and deposit load. In other words, it has to be done in a controlled amount that takes into account money management.
  • The provider has to remember that the statistics are not affected, so there is no use in trying to artificially boost statistics (except in extreme cases that are actually detrimental to the statistics, as was the case of the OP).
EDIT: If you are wondering how I seem to know quite a bit about the signals even though I am not a provider, it is because there was I time I was considering providing a signal (but changed my mind) and so I researched it quite a bit back then.
 
Alain Verleyen:


Otherwise what that means, a signal is started and you can't never add or remove to your balance ? That's insane.

Maybe I am missing something, but I am convinced there is something wrong there.

EDIT: I understand your point, however again that doesn't make sense. A monthly growth is a monthly growth, an YTD is an YTD, it's the same for everyone. The subscribers volume is calculated proportionally to his balance and the one of the provider, if the provider balance increase, all other conditions being the same, the lot size will decrease, so the risk.


I totally 190% agree.

And everybody from MQL in here defending this silly way of doing maths are probably unaware of the fact that providers' accounts can be MAM or PAMM accounts... So deposits, credits and withdrawals can occur.


After and before month that MQL is declaring as -100% (!!!), I had positive month for a total of +2000% YTD that year... MQL says YTD = -100%... Guys are you serious?

So if MetaQuotes decided to welcome only single accounts traders with their venture to manage only their funds, then MetaQuotes decided to cut off the professional part of the business and to rely on accounts which follow the "rules" but are funded with $100 or $500 by a self-traded man in search of good luck.


My proposal is that the calculation of the P/L% will become more linear and rational, without these considerations about withdrawals

But you can add alerts about the withdrawals on the highlighted side notes just below the price.


Another amazing point of MQL is that if you had a month above a +90%, they declare that month as invalid and cheating (it will be not calculated because too profitable to be true!!!!!). So that it is impossible for high yield traders to push this platform to the next step of profitability.

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